RollTide87

I don't post a lot on this forum but I do read a lot of the posts especially those regarding track days. I have an 07 GT/CS - Stock suspension, stock brake rotors and calipers but SS lines, Hi-temp fluid, and Carbotech XP-8 pads all the way around. I have also changed to Conti ExtremeContact tires. Also have intake/tune/Hurst shifter. My next upgrade is to add brake ducts and after that upgrade to Koni adjustables.

I participated in my 4th track day this past weekend at Barber Motorsports Park near Birmingham. The BMW club was hosting. For those not familiar, Barber is a 2.38 16-turn road course - very technical, 80 feet of elevation changes, beautiful course.

My instructor was an amateur racer. He told me I may want to consider racing harnesses to help keep me planted in the seat better. I need the car to remain street capable/practical. What are the options? Is there a 4 or 5 pt harness that works with stock seats? A number of the BMW guys were running some type of 4 pt harness that connected into the back seat belt anchors and came through the headrest posts. Does that exist for Mustangs? I know some of the more advanced track junkies were running 4 or 5 point harnesses and HANS devices in street cars. Interested in getting feedback on what may work. I tried searching but didn't find too much. There was some discussion that the existing 3pt belt may be safer in the event of a rollover since it would allow you to slide to the side.

I don't want to race. The car will remain a street car and I want to try to run 5 or 6 track days a year. Just want to be safer and more in control. I have sore muscles today from having to keep pressure against the steering wheel to push back into the seat to stay in place. Thanks for any help you can provide.

danzcool

I've seen harness bars that bolt into the seat belt anchors. I believe you can still use your 3-point belt and on track days attach/use your 5-point harness, I wouldn't bother with a 4-point.

Whiskey11

I am going to say this as a caveat that each person needs to decide their comfort level for "safety" but any harness without some sort of roll structure (roll bar or full cage) is asking for trouble on a track day. Autocross a harness would be fine as there is much less risk of rollover than an off track excursion on a road course. Sam sells a lap belt that is essentially the bottom section of a 4 point harness without the shoulder straps which in combination with the stock belt should keep your butt planted yet allow your body to move out of the way of the roof should you (hopefully not) end up on the roof. With a full harness you are stuck to the seat and in a roll over you may end up injuring yourself worse than if you had the stock belts on.

The 4 point harnesses they are using are Schrothe Rallye harnesses and they are the only DOT approved 4 point (meaning you can wear them all the time should you chose) but it is still going to have the same problem in a rollover that any other harness will without a roll structure.

I would also check with your local track organization about what harnesses are allowed for HPDE or full on trqck days as some organizations prohibit the use of 4 points. You can't use a 5 point with the stock seats either. The Rallye you can but again its a 4 point. I gave serious thought to it but I am hesitant to do it without a roll bar.

That is just in my opinion... Sam sells the lap belts but other places have it too...

Campo 427R

I bought a pair of Corbeau LG1 seats with harness. I'm currently installing a lightweight roll cage. This will prevent cramping and pain from using my body and muscles to brace myself in turns with the OEM seats. It will protect my head in case of a (god forbid) rollover too. It may never happen to me, but I've seen rollovers happen to others during NASA events and HPDE track days. Be prepared!
Agree with Whiskey11, either stay with the stock belt system and slam ibuprofen and hit the jacuzzi after track days or get a roll bar/cage to protect your head along with the new race/track seats that will keep you locked in around the turns.

Argonaut

The theory that a harness without roll bar = dangerous is a very contentious and much discussed issue. But that fact is there is little to no evidence to support this claim because there are so few data points (the number of people killed or injured in a rollover who were wearing proper harness and seats is tiny). So...regardless of what you say or think, its just opinion and theory. On the other hand, the number of people killed in rollovers with stock 3pt and airbags is huge...just simply because thats the safety system nearly 100% of us use on the street. The biggest killer in a rollover is not the roof crushing but rather getting tossed about the cabin and head being partially ejected or exposed to the side windows or door frame (which is where the 3-pt guides the body to). By the way...this isn't my opinion, this is from real analysis of data by real experts in the field (Joe Marko and John Melvin for example). Look them up. John Melvin presented at the SCCA National Convention and concluded that as long as a 4,5, or 6 point belt is installed in complete compliance with the manufacturers instructions you will be better off with such a harness in a rollover with or without a rollbar. Are there exceptions - where a driver was worse off in a rollover because he had a harness?...maybe (point me to the data if you know of one) but I'll rely on the advice of the experts that you have greater chance of injury or death in rollover with 3pt than proper harness.

RollTide87

I called Schroth Racing. The Rallye 4 harness will work in a Mustang and is designed for track days, autocrossing, driver education, etc. I think it will work and keep me in place better and be safer if things go wrong. Argonaut, thanks for your info from the SCCA experts. I was curious about the rollover crush issue since my understanding is that NTHSA regs require a pretty strenuous crush resistance. Not saying the roof could never crush but it seems it would take a lot.

Now just need to save up a little for that and the brake ducts. The nose of the Mustang really doesn't seem to allow any air to the brakes. I was looking at some of the BMWs and they seemed to have part of the inlets on the nose dedicated to getting some air to the brakes.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

txminime

I agree that rollover are relatively rare and in a violence crash like that, all bets are off and how lucky you are that day is probably as important as any other piece of safety equipment that's in the car.

Personally, my biggest concern about running a 5 points harness without a roll bar is where to mount the shoulder belts. See the warnings from Schroth and G-Force...

Schroth - SHOULDER BELT ROUTING (APPLIES TO ALL RESTRAINT TYPES)
Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no more than a 20° angle.

G-Force - The end attachments of the shoulder harness must also be installed at appropriate angles. The ideal position is anywhere between 5° below and 30° above the driver’s shoulder, as seen in part C of Figure 2. If the upper attachment point falls significantly below the driver's shoulder, then a spinal compression injury is likely to occur. In an accident situation, the shoulder belts pull down and back on the torso as they resist the forward motion of the driver. The resultant restraint force compresses the spinal column and will add to the stresses in the spine already caused by the force of the crash impact.

I briefly considered Schroth Rallye 4, but decided against it because it is going against it's own safety suggestion (see above) and say it is "ok" to use the rear seatbelt anchor points to mount the harness. it is simply not possible to maintain a "safe" shoulder harness angle when using the rear seat belt anchor points.

Until I can come up with a solution, I'm simply wearing 3" lap belts along with the factory 3 points belt on the track. It won't keep me in place as well as 4/5/6 points harness, but I think it is a reasonable compromise between safety and keeping myself planted in the seat.

I actually ordered a Corbeau harness bar. But the fit was horrible (at least the one I got) and I have doubts about how well a thin bar is going to support the harness in a crash.

Norm Peterson

I'm betting that you were "fighting yourself" to some extent, and not as relaxed as you could have been. When that happens, I think you tend to "lift" some of your weight up off the seat cushion, with a subsequent loss of lateral positioning. That's what I've observed in just some moderately enthusiastic street driving, and you might have been tensing biceps against triceps for no net positioning benefit at all. Maybe try relaxing the arms a little and let your weight do a little more of the work that it should be doing.

For autocross, I'll wear a DIY-fabbed chest strap that basically straps my chest to the (OE) seat back. Out on the big track I've used the same strap over the lap belt down at my hips to hold them to the cushion. Either way was an improvement over the OE belting arrangement that allows slack to develop. While I don't have any video or outside commentary regarding how much better it keeps me planted in my seat, I can tell you that my arms have never been sore.


Norm