Cheapest way to have 2005-2009 Mustang GT match or beat 350z?
07-20-2013, 07:57 PM
#1
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: california
Posts: 91
Cheapest way to have 2005-2009 Mustang GT match or beat 350z?
Ok, here is my story. Wonder if any of you have gone through the same experience? Here we go. I have been I guess you can say spoiled to the sublime handling of German Cars, such as Mercedez AMG, Porsche, etc. What I can't / don't want to deal with any more is them being very tempermental, extremely expensive to fix, etc. Enjoyed the ride but stressful to just forget and drive and enjoy. I have never owned a Mustang. Interested in some American Muscle, seems that Mustang is the most "American" muscle car you can currently get. I am interested in getting a 2005-2009 GT. I almost was going to buy a low mileage 1998-2001 Mustang Cobra but have talked to some people and they told me that the 2005-2009 GT is superior, better handling, platform, practically same power eventhough a cobra is more "exclusive". Well I test drove a 2006 GT and felt it is the best handling Mustang I have ever driven. Still feel it lacks a little in the handling department, especially in the corners. What would be the cheapest way for me to improve this car with regarding to corner carving, handling. How can I get it to be neck in neck or outrun the Nissan 350Z on a real race track / road course? Would I be able to get away with an Eibach Pro kit which includes lowering springs and front and back sway bars? I hope so. What is bare minimum for this car to be able to beat a 350z. I loved the Mustangs torque and straight line performance. Remember I have been spoiled with the darn German cars. Ger.
07-20-2013, 09:08 PM
#2
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,313
Interesting post. Straight line stock for stock, its a drivers race. On a road course with equal drivers you would need wider stickier tires, 265-285 range, soft compound. Lowering spring, lots to choose from, most important is damper choice, dont skimp, get good stuff, koni sports. Bigger sway bars. Real honest to god track pads, stainless brake lines and real good brake fluid. Throw a CAI and tune in for good measure and you should have no problem outrunning a 350z. Driver mod is the biggest wild car though. I can run away from E36 and E46 and E92 M3 if the driver is not a good as me. See sig for mods.
07-20-2013, 09:27 PM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Canada - Alberta
Posts: 188
S197 already handles better than a 350z.. 350's are not all that they are cracked up to be... I used to have a 2009 Tacoma X-Runner (basically a camry with a box) and stock for stock it out handled a 350z lol
07-21-2013, 09:17 AM
#4
Honestly, if it's handling you're concerned with, I would be patient and wait for the 2015 Mustang. If all the rumors are true, it'll be a superior car in just about every respect. It will also look more modern if you're accustomed to a German sensibility.
IRS will change how Mustangs drive drastically, and there is something to be said about the "piece of mind" factor of a new vehicle. Just my 2 cents.
IRS will change how Mustangs drive drastically, and there is something to be said about the "piece of mind" factor of a new vehicle. Just my 2 cents.
07-21-2013, 10:31 AM
#5
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Tires. Better, wider, on wider rims, and the same size all around. Keep in mind that tires marked specifically for Porsche, Mercedes, and others differ in several respects from the same size tires in the same tire model from the same mfr that do not carry designations for those cars. I wouldn't look at tires below what Tire Rack lists as "Max Performance Summer" (or tires comparable to them), and I'd try hard to avoid anything requiring wheels bigger than 18".
Shocks, springs, sta-bars, your choice from the usual suspects here unless you're looking more toward coilovers. If C/O's are in the picture, don't shop on price alone. If not, camber plates or caster-camber plates, or Steeda HD strut mounts (these have camber adjustability, and on any early S197 you'll want to get new strut mounts anyway).
Lower, with the caveat that you'll probably want to reset the suspension geometry, which will change due to lowering. A more aggressive camber setting and possibly more positive caster will also help.
Firmer suspension bushings. At least one spherical joint in each rear LCA, for example. There are replacement bushings for the front suspension that should improve turn-in response. Stock, it isn't all that bad, but it does seem to be sensitive to how fast you crank the steering wheel over. Make slow steering inputs, get softish initial cornering response, but crank the wheel over more abruptly and it's a different story. I suspect that the hydraulic-filled bushings at the rears of the front control arm are part of this.
Possibly a Watts link as a replacement for the car's OE PHB. The stiffer you go with springs and sta-bars, the less it'll likely matter whether you get a Watts link with a differential-mounted or a chassis mounted main pivot. A Watts link might be a tougher choice if anybody started making PHBs with both the axle side and chassis side pickups height-adjustable in small steps.
Norm
Shocks, springs, sta-bars, your choice from the usual suspects here unless you're looking more toward coilovers. If C/O's are in the picture, don't shop on price alone. If not, camber plates or caster-camber plates, or Steeda HD strut mounts (these have camber adjustability, and on any early S197 you'll want to get new strut mounts anyway).
Lower, with the caveat that you'll probably want to reset the suspension geometry, which will change due to lowering. A more aggressive camber setting and possibly more positive caster will also help.
Firmer suspension bushings. At least one spherical joint in each rear LCA, for example. There are replacement bushings for the front suspension that should improve turn-in response. Stock, it isn't all that bad, but it does seem to be sensitive to how fast you crank the steering wheel over. Make slow steering inputs, get softish initial cornering response, but crank the wheel over more abruptly and it's a different story. I suspect that the hydraulic-filled bushings at the rears of the front control arm are part of this.
Possibly a Watts link as a replacement for the car's OE PHB. The stiffer you go with springs and sta-bars, the less it'll likely matter whether you get a Watts link with a differential-mounted or a chassis mounted main pivot. A Watts link might be a tougher choice if anybody started making PHBs with both the axle side and chassis side pickups height-adjustable in small steps.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 07-21-2013 at 10:35 AM.
07-21-2013, 11:00 AM
#6
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: new jersey
Posts: 77
Tires. Better, wider, on wider rims, and the same size all around. Keep in mind that tires marked specifically for Porsche, Mercedes, and others differ in several respects from the same size tires in the same tire model from the same mfr that do not carry designations for those cars. I wouldn't look at tires below what Tire Rack lists as "Max Performance Summer" (or tires comparable to them), and I'd try hard to avoid anything requiring wheels bigger than 18".
Shocks, springs, sta-bars, your choice from the usual suspects here unless you're looking more toward coilovers. If C/O's are in the picture, don't shop on price alone. If not, camber plates or caster-camber plates, or Steeda HD strut mounts (these have camber adjustability, and on any early S197 you'll want to get new strut mounts anyway).
Lower, with the caveat that you'll probably want to reset the suspension geometry, which will change due to lowering. A more aggressive camber setting and possibly more positive caster will also help.
Firmer suspension bushings. At least one spherical joint in each rear LCA, for example. There are replacement bushings for the front suspension that should improve turn-in response. Stock, it isn't all that bad, but it does seem to be sensitive to how fast you crank the steering wheel over. Make slow steering inputs, get softish initial cornering response, but crank the wheel over more abruptly and it's a different story. I suspect that the hydraulic-filled bushings at the rears of the front control arm are part of this.
Possibly a Watts link as a replacement for the car's OE PHB. The stiffer you go with springs and sta-bars, the less it'll likely matter whether you get a Watts link with a differential-mounted or a chassis mounted main pivot. A Watts link might be a tougher choice if anybody started making PHBs with both the axle side and chassis side pickups height-adjustable in small steps.
Norm
Shocks, springs, sta-bars, your choice from the usual suspects here unless you're looking more toward coilovers. If C/O's are in the picture, don't shop on price alone. If not, camber plates or caster-camber plates, or Steeda HD strut mounts (these have camber adjustability, and on any early S197 you'll want to get new strut mounts anyway).
Lower, with the caveat that you'll probably want to reset the suspension geometry, which will change due to lowering. A more aggressive camber setting and possibly more positive caster will also help.
Firmer suspension bushings. At least one spherical joint in each rear LCA, for example. There are replacement bushings for the front suspension that should improve turn-in response. Stock, it isn't all that bad, but it does seem to be sensitive to how fast you crank the steering wheel over. Make slow steering inputs, get softish initial cornering response, but crank the wheel over more abruptly and it's a different story. I suspect that the hydraulic-filled bushings at the rears of the front control arm are part of this.
Possibly a Watts link as a replacement for the car's OE PHB. The stiffer you go with springs and sta-bars, the less it'll likely matter whether you get a Watts link with a differential-mounted or a chassis mounted main pivot. A Watts link might be a tougher choice if anybody started making PHBs with both the axle side and chassis side pickups height-adjustable in small steps.
Norm
07-21-2013, 12:14 PM
#7
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Typically, the load rating of a width/profile-18 id only about one number less than the same width/profile-19. I'm assuming that the two sizes are both either "Standard Load" or both are "Extra Load" here. Actual tread widths and section widths will be as consistent as you should ever expect. If you're being fussy about load capacity vs car weight, you can cover for one less load index rating number with about 1 psi greater inflation pressure.
A 19" wheel will weigh more than an 18" wheel of the same design, width, and offset. Same thing for the 19" tire, and in both cases the weight averages out to being a little further out from the axle (more rotational inertia). So you've got more weight (think suspension function and shock damping) to accelerate (rotational inertia). Small effects, yes. But if you're serious about matching or besting some other car you shouldn't be leaving the easy stuff like this on the table. Let the other guy pay for his appearance preferences with a little scrap of his performance instead.
The strongest technical reason for going past 18" is having 15" front rotors. The rough guideline here is rotor diameter + 4". Might manage to get that down to rotor diameter + 3.5" with rotors in a "half inch sizes".
Norm
A 19" wheel will weigh more than an 18" wheel of the same design, width, and offset. Same thing for the 19" tire, and in both cases the weight averages out to being a little further out from the axle (more rotational inertia). So you've got more weight (think suspension function and shock damping) to accelerate (rotational inertia). Small effects, yes. But if you're serious about matching or besting some other car you shouldn't be leaving the easy stuff like this on the table. Let the other guy pay for his appearance preferences with a little scrap of his performance instead.
The strongest technical reason for going past 18" is having 15" front rotors. The rough guideline here is rotor diameter + 4". Might manage to get that down to rotor diameter + 3.5" with rotors in a "half inch sizes".
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 07-21-2013 at 12:17 PM.
07-22-2013, 08:31 PM
#8
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 146
On your car I'd do a good shock/strut combo, some springs, GT500 strut mounts or
Steeda units if you can afford the jump, and an adjustible panhard bar. I'd look at all Steeda units.
Then look at better tires and possibly some newer, lighter wheels. A good brake
upgrade would help, pads and SS brake lines with good brake fluid minimum.
Last a strut tower brace, and maybe some anti-roll bars.
Steeda units if you can afford the jump, and an adjustible panhard bar. I'd look at all Steeda units.
Then look at better tires and possibly some newer, lighter wheels. A good brake
upgrade would help, pads and SS brake lines with good brake fluid minimum.
Last a strut tower brace, and maybe some anti-roll bars.
07-23-2013, 04:53 PM
#9
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/?p=11329
Damn that's one ugly lump and looks like a nightmare to work on. I certainly hope they don't go this route.
Last edited by moosestang; 07-23-2013 at 05:07 PM.
07-23-2013, 07:26 PM
#10
Ok, here is my story. Wonder if any of you have gone through the same experience? Here we go. I have been I guess you can say spoiled to the sublime handling of German Cars, such as Mercedez AMG, Porsche, etc. What I can't / don't want to deal with any more is them being very tempermental, extremely expensive to fix, etc. Enjoyed the ride but stressful to just forget and drive and enjoy. I have never owned a Mustang. Interested in some American Muscle, seems that Mustang is the most "American" muscle car you can currently get. I am interested in getting a 2005-2009 GT. I almost was going to buy a low mileage 1998-2001 Mustang Cobra but have talked to some people and they told me that the 2005-2009 GT is superior, better handling, platform, practically same power eventhough a cobra is more "exclusive". Well I test drove a 2006 GT and felt it is the best handling Mustang I have ever driven. Still feel it lacks a little in the handling department, especially in the corners. What would be the cheapest way for me to improve this car with regarding to corner carving, handling. How can I get it to be neck in neck or outrun the Nissan 350Z on a real race track / road course? Would I be able to get away with an Eibach Pro kit which includes lowering springs and front and back sway bars? I hope so. What is bare minimum for this car to be able to beat a 350z. I loved the Mustangs torque and straight line performance. Remember I have been spoiled with the darn German cars. Ger.
It would take a well modded 350Z to keep up with my 2006 GT. If the 350Z is stock, I wouldn't even waste my gas!
Here's my suspension setup:
https://mustangforums.com/forum/s197...g-package.html