Kill 1997 z28 camaro
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,176
From: Decatur AL USA
RE: Kill 1997 z28 camaro
ORIGINAL: TommyV8
What do automatic S197 Mustang GTs usually run when completely stock?
What do automatic S197 Mustang GTs usually run when completely stock?
Assumes the track is at reasonable altittude ie 0-1000' ASL
13.4-13.9 for sticks.
Anything quicker is usually a GREAT driver in great conditions (Below 0' DA and Sub-1.95 60')
Anything Slower is usually driver error and ridiculous conditions (Over 90F and 2.10+ 60').
4th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,721
From: Florida
RE: Kill 1997 z28 camaro
ORIGINAL: MrRogers
Hell no it wouldn't. As a long time Corvette guy, Ilearned to respect the Cobra when they first hit the streets. When I say it's the Cobras race to to lose, i'm basically saying that the Cobra has to make an error in order to give the LS1 a chance. The truth is,if driver (B) can pull a 13.4-13.6 in an S197then driver (B)should be able to pull a 13.2-13.4 in an LS1...and if driver (B) had an 03-04 Cobra..they should be able to pull a 12.8-13.0 Translation..one car is simply faster than the other. Good and bad drivers can make those numbers look better or worse, making it an drivers race byskill mismatch.
A = Great driver S197 time 13.2 LS1 12.9 Cobra 12.7
B = Average driverS197 time 13.5 LS1 13.2 Cobra 12.9
C = Lesser driver S197 time 13.7 LS1 13.5 Cobra 13.3
Now what happens on the streets is that drivers in differentskill bracketsmeet and race. Which confuses people. Driver C in an Cobrawill lose to driver A in an S197 because of skill. Driver B in and S197 should run even with driver C in an LS1. But if drivers are equal, regardless of skill bracket, the cars will always have present the same out come. Cobra > LS1 > S197
ORIGINAL: Stone629
I'm probably just retarded, but I'm interpreting that as the Cobra will lose the race against an LS1.?
ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt
Read it again. He said it was the Cobras race to lose.
Read it again. He said it was the Cobras race to lose.
A = Great driver S197 time 13.2 LS1 12.9 Cobra 12.7
B = Average driverS197 time 13.5 LS1 13.2 Cobra 12.9
C = Lesser driver S197 time 13.7 LS1 13.5 Cobra 13.3
Now what happens on the streets is that drivers in differentskill bracketsmeet and race. Which confuses people. Driver C in an Cobrawill lose to driver A in an S197 because of skill. Driver B in and S197 should run even with driver C in an LS1. But if drivers are equal, regardless of skill bracket, the cars will always have present the same out come. Cobra > LS1 > S197
Now saying a LS1 will always walk a SN95 would be more of a fact rather than opinion
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,176
From: Decatur AL USA
RE: Kill 1997 z28 camaro
ORIGINAL: TommyV8
That is at least 2 tenths faster than the fastest time I've seen from a reputable source. I don't wanna call BS or anything, but... oh hell, yes I do.[sm=bs.gif]
Seriously, that's way fast.
ORIGINAL: Gene K
Stock LS1 Z28 record is around 12.6x...
Stock LS1 Z28 record is around 12.6x...
Seriously, that's way fast.
It was during a Magazine Rental so I assume it was well prepped.
Its been a few years but I want to say it was a 12.69...
Evan has driven a GM or two in his lifetime to. He has also went a low 12.6 (12.61?) in a C5 Vette.
He had issues getting the C5 to sixty. I think the best was like 1.91 (Horrid for him).
Unlike most of us besides being an outstanding driver who doesnt weigh all that much he knows exactly what
a car needs to go fast from perfect temps, to iced intakes, to tire temps measured with a gun for optimal traction for the compound.
Thats one of the issues with the stock S197. People heat the tires like its got Summer Rubber and then wonder why the All-Seasons wont hook.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,176
From: Decatur AL USA
RE: Kill 1997 z28 camaro
ORIGINAL: tspence45
I thought that Evan Smith's time with an LS1 F-body was a 12.8X?
I thought that Evan Smith's time with an LS1 F-body was a 12.8X?
Maybe Im just an old man with a faulty memory?
Are you talking about the 1998-1999 test with a slightly weaker car and worse air or the 2001?
Anyway back to the subject at hand. The stock LT1 cars in my memory were a good bit slower (0.7?)
Its been so long since I saw a true stock LT1 run I really cant say what their time would be.
Best stock time I ever personally witnessed on a S197 GT was a 13.351 @ 104 on a 1.951 60' (My car with a 115 lb driver)
on not particularly great air +1285 DA. I can vouch that this car is 100% stock.
Best stock time Ive personally witnessed for a LS1 Z28 is 12.91x @ 108(?) on a 1.99(?) 60'. 150 lb(?) Driver.
Steele used to be a hot bed of LS1 activity about 5-10 years ago.
I dont remember the exact air but Im guessing around +500' DA.
I cant prove it was stock (Drivers claim) but itstill had stock lid/air silencersand no obvious mods and was on factory Goodyear GSC's.However if it had 3.73/4.10, Sneaky Pete, or modified Y-Pipe I dont know that I would have known it.
That makes it 4 mph and 0.45 faster. Anyway you look at it the LS1 is just flat faster.
I believe I can run with one with my CAI/Tune but then what happens if the LS1 has a Lid, Y-Pipe, and Tune?
Im back in the hole again....
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,438
From: St. Louis
RE: Kill 1997 z28 camaro
The cars driven by Evan Smith were a 1998 Z28 that ran 12.89 in good weather at Atco IIRC and a 2001 Camaro SS that ran 12.97 in horribly hot weather at Englishtown; I have the2001 article here and it refers to the1998 test. He drove for both Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords and GM High Tech Performance.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,565
From: Jersey
RE: Kill 1997 z28 camaro
ORIGINAL: waffenss
This will never be resolved on this or any other forum.
How about dealing with this issue on a case by case basis.
Somtimes car x will beat car y, and tomorow it will be the other way around.
This will never be resolved on this or any other forum.
How about dealing with this issue on a case by case basis.
Somtimes car x will beat car y, and tomorow it will be the other way around.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 39
From:
RE: Kill 1997 z28 camaro
ORIGINAL: White2000GT
Good kill. Just don't get too cocky with the LS1's. At least not until you get some real mods.
To ripped camel: I don't think it is so much that folks on here are nutswinging on the LS1's. I think it is just that more and more people are finally either realizing or accepting the fact that the LS1 (and all LSx engines for that matter) are amazing engines that produce great power in stock form and even better power with just a few mods.
However, with that said, I don't care what anyone says, Ford has done some amazing things with the 4.6 modular too. Too many people try that old addage "Ford can't make good power without using a blower." Well, that's just a bunch of BS. I mean, look atwhat Ford did with the '99 and '01 Cobras. 320 bhp out of an NA DOHC 4.6. The Mach 1 had 305 - 310 out of an NA 4.6. The new 3v 4.6's make a solid 300 NA. Sure, that's nothing compared to 505 NA from the LS7, but then again, if Ford was to go with a 7 liter engine I am sure they could get plenty enough power out of it too.
Ok, enough of my rant.
ORIGINAL: fatstangs197
My 2007 gt mustang is stock besides pro 5.0 shifter and flows and he had an auto and 373 gears otherwise stock from 15 to 125 and four lengths later ls1 are much closer than the lt1's oh yea he was also talking mad **** mustang sucks this and that and had the girl in car OWNED!!!
My 2007 gt mustang is stock besides pro 5.0 shifter and flows and he had an auto and 373 gears otherwise stock from 15 to 125 and four lengths later ls1 are much closer than the lt1's oh yea he was also talking mad **** mustang sucks this and that and had the girl in car OWNED!!!
To ripped camel: I don't think it is so much that folks on here are nutswinging on the LS1's. I think it is just that more and more people are finally either realizing or accepting the fact that the LS1 (and all LSx engines for that matter) are amazing engines that produce great power in stock form and even better power with just a few mods.
However, with that said, I don't care what anyone says, Ford has done some amazing things with the 4.6 modular too. Too many people try that old addage "Ford can't make good power without using a blower." Well, that's just a bunch of BS. I mean, look atwhat Ford did with the '99 and '01 Cobras. 320 bhp out of an NA DOHC 4.6. The Mach 1 had 305 - 310 out of an NA 4.6. The new 3v 4.6's make a solid 300 NA. Sure, that's nothing compared to 505 NA from the LS7, but then again, if Ford was to go with a 7 liter engine I am sure they could get plenty enough power out of it too.
Ok, enough of my rant.
4th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,316
From:
RE: Kill 1997 z28 camaro
ORIGINAL: LSGun98
and the 2000 cobra r 5.4L 32V which i believe is around 385 hp/tq
ORIGINAL: White2000GT
Good kill. Just don't get too cocky with the LS1's. At least not until you get some real mods.
To ripped camel: I don't think it is so much that folks on here are nutswinging on the LS1's. I think it is just that more and more people are finally either realizing or accepting the fact that the LS1 (and all LSx engines for that matter) are amazing engines that produce great power in stock form and even better power with just a few mods.
However, with that said, I don't care what anyone says, Ford has done some amazing things with the 4.6 modular too. Too many people try that old addage "Ford can't make good power without using a blower." Well, that's just a bunch of BS. I mean, look atwhat Ford did with the '99 and '01 Cobras. 320 bhp out of an NA DOHC 4.6. The Mach 1 had 305 - 310 out of an NA 4.6. The new 3v 4.6's make a solid 300 NA. Sure, that's nothing compared to 505 NA from the LS7, but then again, if Ford was to go with a 7 liter engine I am sure they could get plenty enough power out of it too.
Ok, enough of my rant.
ORIGINAL: fatstangs197
My 2007 gt mustang is stock besides pro 5.0 shifter and flows and he had an auto and 373 gears otherwise stock from 15 to 125 and four lengths later ls1 are much closer than the lt1's oh yea he was also talking mad **** mustang sucks this and that and had the girl in car OWNED!!!
My 2007 gt mustang is stock besides pro 5.0 shifter and flows and he had an auto and 373 gears otherwise stock from 15 to 125 and four lengths later ls1 are much closer than the lt1's oh yea he was also talking mad **** mustang sucks this and that and had the girl in car OWNED!!!
To ripped camel: I don't think it is so much that folks on here are nutswinging on the LS1's. I think it is just that more and more people are finally either realizing or accepting the fact that the LS1 (and all LSx engines for that matter) are amazing engines that produce great power in stock form and even better power with just a few mods.
However, with that said, I don't care what anyone says, Ford has done some amazing things with the 4.6 modular too. Too many people try that old addage "Ford can't make good power without using a blower." Well, that's just a bunch of BS. I mean, look atwhat Ford did with the '99 and '01 Cobras. 320 bhp out of an NA DOHC 4.6. The Mach 1 had 305 - 310 out of an NA 4.6. The new 3v 4.6's make a solid 300 NA. Sure, that's nothing compared to 505 NA from the LS7, but then again, if Ford was to go with a 7 liter engine I am sure they could get plenty enough power out of it too.
Ok, enough of my rant.