n/a 2 v 12.16 @ 112 video
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 469
From: ky
Meh this is all debatable. For that $7000 GT to run 10's (more than once, at least) i am going to need a power adder, a built motor, head work, cams, a built trans, a fuel system, clutch/converter, rear end, labor, tuning, gaskets, valve springs, timing chains, fluids hardware.. etc etc etc, an extensive build like that is never ending. At the end of the day you are talking buku money. On the other hand, I can take a stock 03 cobra add a pulley and an el cheapo zex nitrous kit and run 10's for a few grand. In the long run you are going to be behind every time $$ wise, just the way of the world sadly. When i started with cars a wise man once told me "take what you think you are going to spend and double it".. its coming to fruition in spades for me :lol:
Take this video for an example: I made this the other day, my 2 friends racing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua7rBg5VKco
the mustang has -
a built stroker motor with nice cyl heads, he has prob $7-8k in the motor, a $4k transmission, $1k headers, not to mention the built rear, suspension, roll cage, clutch, intake manifold and a million other odds and ends to put the car together. He guesses he has $25k into the car incl the price of the car (car cost 6 grand) (this is with doing ALL of the labor himself) This winter he is going to tinker with nitrous and probably get the car painted.
the Z28 has -the stock motor, a camshaft, valve springs, my friends second hand cyl heads, my second hand exhaust, running stock rear, stock trans, stock gears etc etc etc.. he prob has 14k total incl price of the car (car is right around 10 grand)
as you can see performance is pretty damn close. Throw some gears in the camaro and take my fat *** out of the car and he will prob be dead nuts or ahead of the stang... As i said, some platforms are superior to others, just the way of the world and the hobby. Im not just talking about LS1 vs ford motors so don't send out the lynch mob I'm just using it as an example.. replace the LS1 camaro in this video with a well set up pullied cobra and we are talking the same thing.... But i am a strong supporter of "mod what you like" that is what keeps things interesting and gives variety
.... but to say the 2v is underestimated is just plain foolish. Its a very poor performance platform out of the box, it can be good but it takes A LOT of work, time and money.
Take this video for an example: I made this the other day, my 2 friends racing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua7rBg5VKco
the mustang has -
a built stroker motor with nice cyl heads, he has prob $7-8k in the motor, a $4k transmission, $1k headers, not to mention the built rear, suspension, roll cage, clutch, intake manifold and a million other odds and ends to put the car together. He guesses he has $25k into the car incl the price of the car (car cost 6 grand) (this is with doing ALL of the labor himself) This winter he is going to tinker with nitrous and probably get the car painted.
the Z28 has -the stock motor, a camshaft, valve springs, my friends second hand cyl heads, my second hand exhaust, running stock rear, stock trans, stock gears etc etc etc.. he prob has 14k total incl price of the car (car is right around 10 grand)
as you can see performance is pretty damn close. Throw some gears in the camaro and take my fat *** out of the car and he will prob be dead nuts or ahead of the stang... As i said, some platforms are superior to others, just the way of the world and the hobby. Im not just talking about LS1 vs ford motors so don't send out the lynch mob I'm just using it as an example.. replace the LS1 camaro in this video with a well set up pullied cobra and we are talking the same thing.... But i am a strong supporter of "mod what you like" that is what keeps things interesting and gives variety
.... but to say the 2v is underestimated is just plain foolish. Its a very poor performance platform out of the box, it can be good but it takes A LOT of work, time and money.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 256
From: San Diego, California
This whole debate is making me think of FORD being Apple. They give you great products but don't give you everything. Sort of like the iPad and iPad two/ 3GS & Iphone4. So from 2V they jumped to 4V and from the 4.6 to the 5.0 (although it isn't a new things) with the Twin independant valve timing technology. Ford makes good mustang motors and f150 motors. They choose not to give you all the goodies though. Smart thing...keeps the enthusiest coming back.
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 664
From: NOLA
This whole debate is making me think of FORD being Apple. They give you great products but don't give you everything. Sort of like the iPad and iPad two/ 3GS & Iphone4. So from 2V they jumped to 4V and from the 4.6 to the 5.0 (although it isn't a new things) with the Twin independant valve timing technology. Ford makes good mustang motors and f150 motors. They choose not to give you all the goodies though. Smart thing...keeps the enthusiest coming back.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,394
From: CT
Meh this is all debatable. For that $7000 GT to run 10's (more than once, at least) i am going to need a power adder, a built motor, head work, cams, a built trans, a fuel system, clutch/converter, rear end, labor, tuning, gaskets, valve springs, timing chains, fluids hardware.. etc etc etc, an extensive build like that is never ending. At the end of the day you are talking buku money. On the other hand, I can take a stock 03 cobra add a pulley and an el cheapo zex nitrous kit and run 10's for a few grand. In the long run you are going to be behind every time $$ wise, just the way of the world sadly. When i started with cars a wise man once told me "take what you think you are going to spend and double it".. its coming to fruition in spades for me :lol:
Take this video for an example: I made this the other day, my 2 friends racing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua7rBg5VKco
the mustang has -
a built stroker motor with nice cyl heads, he has prob $7-8k in the motor, a $4k transmission, $1k headers, not to mention the built rear, suspension, roll cage, clutch, intake manifold and a million other odds and ends to put the car together. He guesses he has $25k into the car incl the price of the car (car cost 6 grand) (this is with doing ALL of the labor himself) This winter he is going to tinker with nitrous and probably get the car painted.
the Z28 has -the stock motor, a camshaft, valve springs, my friends second hand cyl heads, my second hand exhaust, running stock rear, stock trans, stock gears etc etc etc.. he prob has 14k total incl price of the car (car is right around 10 grand)
as you can see performance is pretty damn close. Throw some gears in the camaro and take my fat *** out of the car and he will prob be dead nuts or ahead of the stang... As i said, some platforms are superior to others, just the way of the world and the hobby. Im not just talking about LS1 vs ford motors so don't send out the lynch mob I'm just using it as an example.. replace the LS1 camaro in this video with a well set up pullied cobra and we are talking the same thing.... But i am a strong supporter of "mod what you like" that is what keeps things interesting and gives variety.... but to say the 2v is underestimated is just plain foolish. Its a very poor performance platform out of the box, it can be good but it takes A LOT of work, time and money.
Take this video for an example: I made this the other day, my 2 friends racing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua7rBg5VKco
the mustang has -
a built stroker motor with nice cyl heads, he has prob $7-8k in the motor, a $4k transmission, $1k headers, not to mention the built rear, suspension, roll cage, clutch, intake manifold and a million other odds and ends to put the car together. He guesses he has $25k into the car incl the price of the car (car cost 6 grand) (this is with doing ALL of the labor himself) This winter he is going to tinker with nitrous and probably get the car painted.
the Z28 has -the stock motor, a camshaft, valve springs, my friends second hand cyl heads, my second hand exhaust, running stock rear, stock trans, stock gears etc etc etc.. he prob has 14k total incl price of the car (car is right around 10 grand)
as you can see performance is pretty damn close. Throw some gears in the camaro and take my fat *** out of the car and he will prob be dead nuts or ahead of the stang... As i said, some platforms are superior to others, just the way of the world and the hobby. Im not just talking about LS1 vs ford motors so don't send out the lynch mob I'm just using it as an example.. replace the LS1 camaro in this video with a well set up pullied cobra and we are talking the same thing.... But i am a strong supporter of "mod what you like" that is what keeps things interesting and gives variety
.... but to say the 2v is underestimated is just plain foolish. Its a very poor performance platform out of the box, it can be good but it takes A LOT of work, time and money.this is what a 408W stang should look like... lets see a mild LS6 keep with this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWzNUupIVp8
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 38
From: CT
I will say I have been seeing an increase of heads and cam swaps out there. I'm not saying the 2V is better than another engine stock but like everything if you stick with it, it will surprise you. The first vid in this thread was just all bolt on mods (yes some think cams are bolt ons) which as you can guess did not equate to 400 plus rwh. You do not need 400 rwh to make a 2V Mustang hit 12's or high 11's, if you want to take it that far. So spending money gobs of on the engine, transmission and fuel system is out the window. Also you need comparing the purchase prices of each. Average price for a 03 / 04 Cobra now a days is 18K. So that almost another 10K the 2V can play with.
Again here we are only talking numbers and not real life. Car payments / insurance / extra income to put towards the building come into effect here.
T^t for tat parts for a 4V in most cases are heck of lot more money than a 2V. All I was pointing out is that the 2V is an underestimated Mustang and yes people do not give it credit for what it can be...refer back to my first post. Everyone will say well this car is better or that car is better like you are seeing here because now gm cars are being compared. Seems the majority of the 2V crowd wants to fit in or be given credit but always gets hammered on. And likely will follow the ones who tell them to abandon the building of a 2V.
Again here we are only talking numbers and not real life. Car payments / insurance / extra income to put towards the building come into effect here.
T^t for tat parts for a 4V in most cases are heck of lot more money than a 2V. All I was pointing out is that the 2V is an underestimated Mustang and yes people do not give it credit for what it can be...refer back to my first post. Everyone will say well this car is better or that car is better like you are seeing here because now gm cars are being compared. Seems the majority of the 2V crowd wants to fit in or be given credit but always gets hammered on. And likely will follow the ones who tell them to abandon the building of a 2V.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,967
From: Buffalo, NY
if you would have paid attention you would see that the camaro is a STOCK 346ci and the Mustang is a 410 ci stroker built off a 351W ..... argument doesn't hold much water anymore does it?
also "the SC mustang didn't get on it"
Obviously you have no idea what a 110 trap car looks like against a 120+ trap car
Last edited by JT76; Sep 29, 2011 at 05:11 PM.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,967
From: Buffalo, NY
not trying to start anything but that SN95 is set up like crap... i think my 331 pulled harder than that...
this is what a 408W stang should look like... lets see a mild LS6 keep with this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWzNUupIVp8
this is what a 408W stang should look like... lets see a mild LS6 keep with this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWzNUupIVp8
I will say I have been seeing an increase of heads and cam swaps out there. I'm not saying the 2V is better than another engine stock but like everything if you stick with it, it will surprise you. The first vid in this thread was just all bolt on mods (yes some think cams are bolt ons) which as you can guess did not equate to 400 plus rwh. You do not need 400 rwh to make a 2V Mustang hit 12's or high 11's, if you want to take it that far. So spending money gobs of on the engine, transmission and fuel system is out the window. Also you need comparing the purchase prices of each. Average price for a 03 / 04 Cobra now a days is 18K. So that almost another 10K the 2V can play with.
Again here we are only talking numbers and not real life. Car payments / insurance / extra income to put towards the building come into effect here.
T^t for tat parts for a 4V in most cases are heck of lot more money than a 2V. All I was pointing out is that the 2V is an underestimated Mustang and yes people do not give it credit for what it can be...refer back to my first post. Everyone will say well this car is better or that car is better like you are seeing here because now gm cars are being compared. Seems the majority of the 2V crowd wants to fit in or be given credit but always gets hammered on. And likely will follow the ones who tell them to abandon the building of a 2V.
Again here we are only talking numbers and not real life. Car payments / insurance / extra income to put towards the building come into effect here.
T^t for tat parts for a 4V in most cases are heck of lot more money than a 2V. All I was pointing out is that the 2V is an underestimated Mustang and yes people do not give it credit for what it can be...refer back to my first post. Everyone will say well this car is better or that car is better like you are seeing here because now gm cars are being compared. Seems the majority of the 2V crowd wants to fit in or be given credit but always gets hammered on. And likely will follow the ones who tell them to abandon the building of a 2V.
Last edited by JT76; Sep 29, 2011 at 05:23 PM.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 38
From: CT
You said a 10 second car, i don't doubt that it wouldn't be hard to run 12's in a N/A 2v car. Running 11's N/A in a 2v would be a feat. It just isn't practicable for someone who wants a performance car. If someone is out to prove a point or show that it can be done then sure. But if a friend asked me if i thought he should build a 2v with the goal of running anything faster than a mid 12 i would NEVER recommend it, basing this on first hand experience. Just my $.02. Im just being realistic from a standpoint of having "been there, done that" and not from internet hearsay.
As for the "10 sec" comment I made. This is what I said in my other post if you did not read it correctly..."...But in the end doing a 10 sec quarter does it matter which Mustang got you there?...." I did not say doing it N/A or S/C'd did I?
Imo the 2V crowd needs to follow their own path and stop listening to the 4V crowd and the other "I bleed" chevy, mopar, etc etc guys and do what they want. They should do their own homework and do it thoroughly before posting for advice. Not just look into horse power but other aspects as in reality. Kids, work, insurance, price, house, rent, etc etc etc. Its not about who has the most horse power but who can get it done. As I said before people will always tell others to not go the 2V route, like yourself.
In my first hand experience I have hit the 400rwh mark in a N/A 2V, which people said it could not be done. And you have seen in the first vid a 2V hitting 12.1 N/A. As I said before in my first post the 2V is underestimated.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,967
From: Buffalo, NY
People build hyundais and other 4 and 6 cylinder grocery getter cars. You are now all over the board and nit picking. To each their own on who wants to build what. Why do people constantly want to put down the 2V is beyond me. The fact remains it not an issue to get the 2Vs into the 12s 11's and even the 10 sec range. Either N/A or with a S/Cer and yes there are 2V's that have hit high 11's N/A. Now remember we are talking about building which takes a lot of searching for information, phone calls, and talking to people in person.
As for the "10 sec" comment I made. This is what I said in my other post if you did not read it correctly..."...But in the end doing a 10 sec quarter does it matter which Mustang got you there?...." I did not say doing it N/A or S/C'd did I?
Imo the 2V crowd needs to follow their own path and stop listening to the 4V crowd and the other "I bleed" chevy, mopar, etc etc guys and do what they want. They should do their own homework and do it thoroughly before posting for advice. Not just look into horse power but other aspects as in reality. Kids, work, insurance, price, house, rent, etc etc etc. Its not about who has the most horse power but who can get it done. As I said before people will always tell others to not go the 2V route, like yourself.
In my first hand experience I have hit the 400rwh mark in a N/A 2V, which people said it could not be done. And you have seen in the first vid a 2V hitting 12.1 N/A. As I said before in my first post the 2V is underestimated.
As for the "10 sec" comment I made. This is what I said in my other post if you did not read it correctly..."...But in the end doing a 10 sec quarter does it matter which Mustang got you there?...." I did not say doing it N/A or S/C'd did I?
Imo the 2V crowd needs to follow their own path and stop listening to the 4V crowd and the other "I bleed" chevy, mopar, etc etc guys and do what they want. They should do their own homework and do it thoroughly before posting for advice. Not just look into horse power but other aspects as in reality. Kids, work, insurance, price, house, rent, etc etc etc. Its not about who has the most horse power but who can get it done. As I said before people will always tell others to not go the 2V route, like yourself.
In my first hand experience I have hit the 400rwh mark in a N/A 2V, which people said it could not be done. And you have seen in the first vid a 2V hitting 12.1 N/A. As I said before in my first post the 2V is underestimated.