Help me understand...
07-03-2007, 11:21 PM
#31
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orlando
Posts: 1,879
RE: Help me understand...
but if you get an older v8 you can get it cheaper. i bought my fox for $1,400! pretty good bang for my buck i think. i guess i don't have a point to this argument except............V8 FTW!
07-03-2007, 11:38 PM
#32
RE: Help me understand...
ORIGINAL: LilRoush
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For$300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 inmy M112blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
ORIGINAL: nanaki
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For$300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 inmy M112blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
347 street forged stroker engine pro built and balanced from www.haneymotorsports.com $2000
GT-40 Twist Flow Aluminum Heads w/ assembled valvetrain- $1200 (ebay as well as many other places)
GT-40 Cobra Intake Manifold (used) - $400 (and that's giving some) ebay
Performance Products 75mm Throttle Body - $140 www.mustangsunlimited.com
F-303 cam - $200 NEW www.summitracing.com
42lb injectors - $150 (depending on store) www.americanmuscle.com
255lb hr holley fuel pump - $120 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Kirbane adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $100 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Do a basic home made port job - $0
Do the basic needed install work on the new engine - $0
Total = approx $4310
Est. RWHP = approx 375+
Buy a used/rebuilt Paxton, Vortec, Powerdyne, etc. S/C = $1200-2000, so let's just say $1600
New Total = approx $5910
Est. RWHP = 550
Much more mods, for a less cost, and considering the old sn-95 will cost less than a V6 unless you either get riped off, or get a hell of a deal, the dolar to dolar figures point in the direction that whatever you can do, I can do for the same approx cost.
07-03-2007, 11:44 PM
#33
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 1 of 50
Posts: 619
RE: Help me understand...
the way i see it a v6 is just a learning tool, i love learning about my car and how to work on it and see how far i can push it and once ive mastered the v6 ill move on the v8
in my point of view the v6 is exactly what ford said it was "entry level" you move up from there
but thats just my opinion
in my point of view the v6 is exactly what ford said it was "entry level" you move up from there
but thats just my opinion
07-03-2007, 11:54 PM
#35
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,526
RE: Help me understand...
v6 isnt just a learning tool go pick up the newer MMFF last months or this months and read a couple articles
super coup
turboed V6 running 9's
and a 4cyl running 9.1 in the article but is now running 8.9 since the artical
or just look arround the forum LilRoush is a prime example of the V6 being a good platform and not just a stepping stone to some thing better down the road
super coup
turboed V6 running 9's
and a 4cyl running 9.1 in the article but is now running 8.9 since the artical
or just look arround the forum LilRoush is a prime example of the V6 being a good platform and not just a stepping stone to some thing better down the road
07-04-2007, 12:00 AM
#36
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 1 of 50
Posts: 619
RE: Help me understand...
i realize that, hence the reason i said it was my opinion
i mean dont get me wrong the v6 platform is great and can be a fast car but i still dont see too many lil roushes, most people tend to get a v6 and upgrade to a v8
i mean dont get me wrong the v6 platform is great and can be a fast car but i still dont see too many lil roushes, most people tend to get a v6 and upgrade to a v8
07-04-2007, 01:45 AM
#37
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: IL
Posts: 10,637
RE: Help me understand...
ORIGINAL: jthorn9
Challenge taken, however, I'm gonna use the sn955.0 GT instead of the 2V 4.6L GT.
347 street forged stroker engine pro built and balanced from www.haneymotorsports.com $2000
GT-40 Twist Flow Aluminum Heads w/ assembled valvetrain- $1200 (ebay as well as many other places)
GT-40 Cobra Intake Manifold (used) - $400 (and that's giving some) ebay
Performance Products 75mm Throttle Body - $140 www.mustangsunlimited.com
F-303 cam - $200 NEW www.summitracing.com
42lb injectors - $150 (depending on store) www.americanmuscle.com
255lb hr holley fuel pump - $120 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Kirbane adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $100 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Do a basic home made port job - $0
Do the basic needed install work on the new engine - $0
Total = approx $4310
Est. RWHP = approx 375+
Buy a used/rebuilt Paxton, Vortec, Powerdyne, etc. S/C = $1200-2000, so let's just say $1600
New Total = approx $5910
Est. RWHP = 550
Much more mods, for a less cost, and considering the old sn-95 will cost less than a V6 unless you either get riped off, or get a hell of a deal, the dolar to dolar figures point in the direction that whatever you can do, I can do for the same approx cost.
ORIGINAL: LilRoush
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For$300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 inmy M112blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
ORIGINAL: nanaki
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For$300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 inmy M112blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
347 street forged stroker engine pro built and balanced from www.haneymotorsports.com $2000
GT-40 Twist Flow Aluminum Heads w/ assembled valvetrain- $1200 (ebay as well as many other places)
GT-40 Cobra Intake Manifold (used) - $400 (and that's giving some) ebay
Performance Products 75mm Throttle Body - $140 www.mustangsunlimited.com
F-303 cam - $200 NEW www.summitracing.com
42lb injectors - $150 (depending on store) www.americanmuscle.com
255lb hr holley fuel pump - $120 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Kirbane adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $100 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Do a basic home made port job - $0
Do the basic needed install work on the new engine - $0
Total = approx $4310
Est. RWHP = approx 375+
Buy a used/rebuilt Paxton, Vortec, Powerdyne, etc. S/C = $1200-2000, so let's just say $1600
New Total = approx $5910
Est. RWHP = 550
Much more mods, for a less cost, and considering the old sn-95 will cost less than a V6 unless you either get riped off, or get a hell of a deal, the dolar to dolar figures point in the direction that whatever you can do, I can do for the same approx cost.
While our resident sn95 owner likes to listen to the wrong people, he's at least on the right track. Given the same budget, I would guarantee that I could put 600+ to the tires with a 5.0 car. The difference is that jthorn picked the wrong heads, the VERY wrong cam, and the wrong upper and lower.
A set of use trick flow twisted wedge heads...$800. Would make at least 30+ hp over what he has listed. The holley systemax intake makes 40hp over the Cobra...used...$250. The custom ground .600 lift 234/242 cam thats floating around my garage...$0. Another 25ish hp. (Hey, you got the fuel system for free) Various other parts that if I were to actually put some time into, I'm sure I could find for less bread than what you can do with the V6. Man, it's just not gonna happen. Either you want to go really fast, or you want to be that guy would likes to talk **** with his V6. I usually find the latter to be a bunch of posers. If a V6 was really the way to go fast, everyone would do it. You're hardly an innovator.
07-04-2007, 01:51 AM
#38
RE: Help me understand...
Hee............. I just picked the cheaper option, but yea, that set up would be 10X better.
Don't know why I put F-303 in there, the Comp Cams xtreme lift series would be one of the best to make serrious power, and cost pretty much the same. Dohhh[&:]
Wow, at this rate sideways may actually like me enough to stand mein like 10 billion years.[8D]
Don't know why I put F-303 in there, the Comp Cams xtreme lift series would be one of the best to make serrious power, and cost pretty much the same. Dohhh[&:]Wow, at this rate sideways may actually like me enough to stand mein like 10 billion years.[8D]
07-04-2007, 03:27 AM
#39
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 803
RE: Help me understand...
ORIGINAL: jthorn9
Challenge taken, however, I'm gonna use the sn955.0 GT instead of the 2V 4.6L GT.
347 street forged stroker engine pro built and balanced from www.haneymotorsports.com $2000
GT-40 Twist Flow Aluminum Heads w/ assembled valvetrain- $1200 (ebay as well as many other places)
GT-40 Cobra Intake Manifold (used) - $400 (and that's giving some) ebay
Performance Products 75mm Throttle Body - $140 www.mustangsunlimited.com
F-303 cam - $200 NEW www.summitracing.com
42lb injectors - $150 (depending on store) www.americanmuscle.com
255lb hr holley fuel pump - $120 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Kirbane adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $100 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Do a basic home made port job - $0
Do the basic needed install work on the new engine - $0
Total = approx $4310
Est. RWHP = approx 375+
Buy a used/rebuilt Paxton, Vortec, Powerdyne, etc. S/C = $1200-2000, so let's just say $1600
New Total = approx $5910
Est. RWHP = 550
Much more mods, for a less cost, and considering the old sn-95 will cost less than a V6 unless you either get riped off, or get a hell of a deal, the dolar to dolar figures point in the direction that whatever you can do, I can do for the same approx cost.
ORIGINAL: LilRoush
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For$300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 inmy M112blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
ORIGINAL: nanaki
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For$300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 inmy M112blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
347 street forged stroker engine pro built and balanced from www.haneymotorsports.com $2000
GT-40 Twist Flow Aluminum Heads w/ assembled valvetrain- $1200 (ebay as well as many other places)
GT-40 Cobra Intake Manifold (used) - $400 (and that's giving some) ebay
Performance Products 75mm Throttle Body - $140 www.mustangsunlimited.com
F-303 cam - $200 NEW www.summitracing.com
42lb injectors - $150 (depending on store) www.americanmuscle.com
255lb hr holley fuel pump - $120 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Kirbane adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $100 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Do a basic home made port job - $0
Do the basic needed install work on the new engine - $0
Total = approx $4310
Est. RWHP = approx 375+
Buy a used/rebuilt Paxton, Vortec, Powerdyne, etc. S/C = $1200-2000, so let's just say $1600
New Total = approx $5910
Est. RWHP = 550
Much more mods, for a less cost, and considering the old sn-95 will cost less than a V6 unless you either get riped off, or get a hell of a deal, the dolar to dolar figures point in the direction that whatever you can do, I can do for the same approx cost.
07-04-2007, 03:39 AM
#40
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 803
RE: Help me understand...
ORIGINAL: LilRoush
If you can't swap a motor, you shouldn't be trying to build a 400 hp car. Period. You need the knowledge to run something like that....otherwise (in my opinion), you'd just another fool off the street trying to be cool.
A used Thunderbird Super Coupe short block can be found at many junkyards all over the US. You can also watch the SC forums (there are several). There is no need to pull internals or swap rotating assemblies. It's a direct motor swap. The SC motor has a low compression forged set up with a blower specific cam. Unbolt the tranny, unhook the wiring harness and various lines, unbolt the motor from the mounts and lift it up and out.
Finding an 8.8 is as easy as watching both local forums and junk yards. Again, it's a simple swap. If you can turn a wrench, you can swap an axle. Take off the wheels, unhook the rear brakes, unbolt the lower shock mount, unbolt the drive shaft, unbolt the upper/lower control arms.... drop axle out and reverse it to install the new one.
My blower set up is a basic boxed upper intake with an M112 on top. I've picked up several M112's for $250-$300. The boxed upper I've offer to be made fairly cheap. Fuel upgrades are take off "junk" parts from 03/04 Cobras that you can almost get free from a Cobra owner who is upgrading. Again, surf some specific forums (like svtperformance.com or ebay).
ROTM: you say your "white car"....sorry I'm not too familiar with other members cars yet. What year is it? I assume an SN95 since that is what we are comparing? I listed average prices from across the US. I'm sure I could do it cheaper if I looked harder. But that wouldn't make for a fair comparison at all. I guy I'm doing a car for here locally just picked up a SC long block and the M90 blower set up for $300 total. I didn't say everyone could do it like that, but it does happen. it gives the advantage of SC heads to, which run an upgraded valve trains as well. When tossed together with some port work, he'll see close to 380 at the wheels with less than $800 total spent (aside from the car itself).
If you can't swap a motor, you shouldn't be trying to build a 400 hp car. Period. You need the knowledge to run something like that....otherwise (in my opinion), you'd just another fool off the street trying to be cool.
A used Thunderbird Super Coupe short block can be found at many junkyards all over the US. You can also watch the SC forums (there are several). There is no need to pull internals or swap rotating assemblies. It's a direct motor swap. The SC motor has a low compression forged set up with a blower specific cam. Unbolt the tranny, unhook the wiring harness and various lines, unbolt the motor from the mounts and lift it up and out.
Finding an 8.8 is as easy as watching both local forums and junk yards. Again, it's a simple swap. If you can turn a wrench, you can swap an axle. Take off the wheels, unhook the rear brakes, unbolt the lower shock mount, unbolt the drive shaft, unbolt the upper/lower control arms.... drop axle out and reverse it to install the new one.
My blower set up is a basic boxed upper intake with an M112 on top. I've picked up several M112's for $250-$300. The boxed upper I've offer to be made fairly cheap. Fuel upgrades are take off "junk" parts from 03/04 Cobras that you can almost get free from a Cobra owner who is upgrading. Again, surf some specific forums (like svtperformance.com or ebay).
ROTM: you say your "white car"....sorry I'm not too familiar with other members cars yet. What year is it? I assume an SN95 since that is what we are comparing? I listed average prices from across the US. I'm sure I could do it cheaper if I looked harder. But that wouldn't make for a fair comparison at all. I guy I'm doing a car for here locally just picked up a SC long block and the M90 blower set up for $300 total. I didn't say everyone could do it like that, but it does happen. it gives the advantage of SC heads to, which run an upgraded valve trains as well. When tossed together with some port work, he'll see close to 380 at the wheels with less than $800 total spent (aside from the car itself).
I'm also curious, if i were to use all the internals from the thunderbird engine, but still keep my mustang block, how effective woudl that be? Mine is pretty low mileage, and I know how its been cared for, and the prospect of buying a junkyard engine is a bit scary to me.