rygenstormlocke

LX,

I thought my response was spot on (in the other thread), and simply put I was sharing my research with others here. I stated it as what I derived based on my research and listed the variables used in my research. Now, like I have repeated myself, at the end of the day, all of our tunes come from one of two guys at SCT (EDIT: which you started to say in your more recent posts, so ignore this section lol). That's it, one guy has written the base tunes we all enjoy. And I think my point about the only two tuners that we know of right now that drive an 05 auto on a daily basis that they develop the tune from, is Lidio and Doug. I think it is a very valid point, does anyone else do that. It's like getting the first or second 4.0 tune from a shop that usually works on V8s. I know Doug's made several revisions to his tune and maild them out.

This is really like arguing over exhaust systems, its about sound preference. Now, I have no problem with someone asking for numeric data, I have number data that compares Diablo Perfromance tune with XCAL2 on my car, I have data comparing XCAL2 TI, Excessive and Bamachips at the track, with Bama comming out on top by 3/10ths on my car. I have lots of track runs with different tweaking, modificaitons, etc. So, with my example, you can derive a best tuner for those three for track purposes.

My question to you is, have you done any research? Have you called Evolution to get their take on it, did you ask them how many autos they have tuned and what the results were at the track (tranny schedule dosent mean as much on a dyno)? Important question is, "How many autos have you tuned?" and "Does your shop have an auto test mule?". Have you run more than the 3 tunes you got from Evolution, have you compared them and come up with your own conclusions?

So while its cool to be the devils advocate (which is easy to do by the way), give some feedback. Make some phone calls! I've talked to Mike, Lidio, Doug, and Paul picking their brains on these cars. Anyone can raise the red flag, if you disagree, then cool, if you are gonna make a big deal about it, bring some new information to the table.

rygenstormlocke

Also, and I know I'm on a rant here. But who here running the Evolution tune, with an auto, a axle back muffler, CAI has been to the track? Let's compare some slips. I know Dougs customers have a bunch of slips as do Lidios and Brenspeed. I have nothing againg Evolution, so lets take this to the next level. Lets hash out some data.

Better than using funky symbols in our posts and bashing each other.

rygenstormlocke

Here's a good one, in favor of Evolution compared to Brenspeed:

https://mustangforums.com/m_1286899/printable.htm

pat6674u

Well at least I wasn't called a retard this time.
"What exactly isn't legitimate about my point (it's a point, not an argument)? Specifically".
Well, the last time I checked people have "arguments" on differing "points". So your point is was you are arguing. You are real quick to correct other member's use of English, so we of the 70 I.Q. club would like to return the favor.

"Or are you too busy seeking their approval with supportive posts?"

On this "point" you are raising in your argument, try not to mistake agreeing with people as seeking their approval. Being an individual does not necessitate being at odds with everyone.

rygenstormlocke

Nothing wrong with an argument, I think it's when name calling occurs is when people gang up and bash. The debate would be a good one name calling aside.

LX200

Rygen,
Bingo, you hit in on the head. I use Evolution. Nowhere in any of my posts will you find me saying "Evolution is the best". I will say I am happy with Evolution and that if you live in the Pa/NJ/NY area, you can get to his shop and be dynoed for free if you buy your C&L and SCT from him.
But, I never say he's best. I don't know this. Nobody does. In virtually every post I make, I will point out the big four tuners, and suggest many people here are happy with each one of them. Then I mention if money is an issue, it appears Evolution has the lowest price (it has been every time I've checked over the last 3 months). I then add I'm happy with my tune, shift points, throttle response, etc.
Now when a nube comes along and asks what to do about a tune, and a bunch of people go "If you have an auto, Lido is the best", that's just wrong. It's wrong to the person you are saying it to (because it is not fact) and it is wrong to the many vendors who sponsor this site, all of whom might create tunes just as capable, and could use the business as well.
In fact, there was a thread a while back where Evolution and and another big four tuner were compared, and somebody had some before and after dyno numbers with each tune. It appeared that Evolution got a few more HP out of the car, and this individual declared the tune better. Eventually, the other tuner came into the thread and discussed how there are so many other factors involved in determining the "goodness" of a tune, such as longevity of the tuned vehicle. This was a totally legitimate point to post, and PERFECTLY makes my point that "best" is not even something that can be defined. For you, it might be the absolute best quarter mile. For me, it might be the best 0-60. For the next guy, it might be a great improvement in throttle response with the assurance that his transmission is not under any extra stress. For a fourth person, it might be shift points that stay well clear of redline. BUT, GIVEN ALL THIS, we can't define best, so we should not state that somebody is best. It's not definable and not fair to other vendors or nubes seeking info.
To your specific point about whether I have done extensive research on these dealers, the answer is no. But I have not stated any conclusions, such as "Evolution is best", that REQUIRE any research. I have stated that they appear to have the lowest price, and I am happy with the product. I have done enough research to state this. And, we may have differing views on research. I don't take others opinions as hard research that will allow me to make an across the board statement. That requires REAL data.
As Knotband suggests below, there is a strong clique here, and if you suggest something against the mainstream thinking of the clique, you can expect vitriol and not a rational discourse on the topic. Do my posts get an edge here at times? Ya. And so do many of the posts coming my way. Takes two to tango. I've taken plenty of name calling coming my way. But, if somebody in the clique uses names, it goes unnoticed. If somebody on the outside uses them, more bashing can be expected.
Bottom line... until we all agree on what "best" is, and then somebody does a scientifically valid experiment to determine who "best" is, it will all just be conjecture. So let's be honest and call it that.
Oh well, it is what it is.

LX200

Pat667... actually, when I have a point that is different from somebody else, I normally discuss it with them, I don't argue with them. There really is a big difference, both in the conduct of the conversation, and the odds that you'll influence the other party.

Again I ask, because you skirted the issue, what EXACTLY is not "legitimate" about my contention that data does not exist to declare any specific tuner as being the "best". Please, I really want to hear why you can't support this idea... if you don't support it, it means you believe it is clearly possible to determine the best SCT tuner of Mustangs. Please put forth your "argument". Oh, and let us know who it is.

KnotBand

How can you take time slips from the track and use those to determine who the best tuner is? There are so many variables that contribute to track times it is not even fair to begin to make a comparison. The only facts that you can get out of those are that "on this track, at this time of day, in this kind of weather, with this car, and this person driving, etc...", the car with this persons tune went faster then "the person driving this type of car, at this track, at this time of day, in this kind of weather, etc....). That is just a rediculous point to even try and use in an arguement. To even compare tunes, you would have to take the same car on a Dyno, in a controlled atmosphere where nothing regarding the environment changed.

Frankly, this whole argument is stupid, and everybody is proving LX's point my not having a definative answer and proof who the "best" tuner is.

pat6674u

Well, I would say you need to work on your communication skills, as everytime you begin to "dicuss" your point you become extremely rude, one-sided and insulting towards those you are having the "discussion" with. As for your "point", once you spell it out for all of us with the 70 I.Q.'s you do have a point. When you whine about other people name dropping it more sounds like you think it unjust that a tuner other than the one you chose was mentioned. So I guess you could say that I agree with your point, therefore I guess now I'm seeking your approval? In the grown up world that doesn't make sense. Try having a reasonable conversation that involves discussion and perhaps you won't have so many people attacking you and your "points" so often.

scrming

And the thing is... when they have a autotmatic issue they call Lidio... so the base tune that SCT gives out mostly likely has been touched by Lidio...