Tune + Warranty
06-16-2005, 10:30 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 176
Tune + Warranty
I know that this question has been addressed a few times in other threads, but I have not read a definite answer. Some have said that a tune won't void the warranty if you revert to stock settings before going for service. Others have said that this isn't true and that the technicians spot this as the computer logs all entries made. Does anyone know for sure?
06-16-2005, 10:40 PM
#2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12
06-17-2005, 01:59 AM
#3
1st Gear Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 112
RE: Tune + Warranty
that's a great link that clearly explains warranties and uses, but I would also like to know if a dealer tech can tell if the comp has been flashed and then re-flashed back to stock. I'd like to know just in case I have an emissions, fuel or engine problem after I flashed my chip then flash it back before service, and the dealer can determine that I have tuned my car, then tuned it back to stock, I think they would have a strong case. Does anyone know for sure, any ford techs out there.
06-17-2005, 02:07 AM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 385
RE: Tune + Warranty
well...i don't know for sure...but I'm pretty sure that the onboard computer keeps a log of everthing - including a timestamp of what was done.
if I was the head of Ford - I would sure make these babies record everthing. then I'd go smoke a cigar
if I was the head of Ford - I would sure make these babies record everthing. then I'd go smoke a cigar
06-19-2005, 05:10 PM
#9
1st Gear Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 77
RE: Tune + Warranty
I have tried several times to copy the info on the link that elric762 posted with no luck. Anyone else tried? I wanted this info to look back on when needed. I've tried hitting the print button and pulling down print out of one of my files and choosing just what I highlighted but neither worked. I keep getting a message that it encountered some kind of problem and needs to shut down. Any help?
06-21-2005, 12:05 AM
#10
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ca
Posts: 2,226
RE: Tune + Warranty
The enclosed materials are intended to help youshould you have a vehicle warranty claim denied in circumstances in which an aftermarket product has been used. The information describes the law on vehicle warranties and will provide a sense of what is and is not an improper warranty denial. After reviewing this information, you will be aware of the steps to take to fight unlawful warranty denials.
In many cases it will not be necessary to take all the steps outlined here because disputes are often resolved at an early stage.
What Does the Warranty Actually Say?
Start by re-reading the warranty documents. Become familiar with what the documents actually say, not what you think they should say. If the language is confusing, get help in understanding what it really means. Look for specific items or circumstances that may or may not be covered. Determine if there is a process specified for resolving disputes.
The Law
Federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers, dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. With regard to aftermarket parts, the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used (see Attachment A).The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law.
Check Vehicle History
Sometimes a malfunction in a new vehicle may be identified as a "pattern failure," a failure that is recognized as common to your make and model of vehicle. It may be a manufacturing defect which has become the subject of a government-mandated recall. You should check with another dealer, the vehicle manufacturer or an independent service providersuch as those listed belowto see if there are any Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs), field fixes or other service-related information for your vehicle which would indicate that the problem you are experiencing is a common one. In cases of government-mandated recalls, the dealer is obliged to notify you as a vehicle owner. However, you may check for yourself by calling the vehicle manufacturer's 800 number, the EPA (for emissions systems issues) or the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), for safety-related issues.
EPA: 202/233-9040
NHTSA: 800/424-9393
Chiltons: 610/964-4600
AllData: 916/684-5200
Motor Publications: 800/426-6897
American Automobile Manufacturers Association: 313/872-4311
Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association: 202/296-8537
Determine the True Cause of the Problem
If possible, attempt to independently verify the accuracy of the claims made by the dealership. The manufacturer of the aftermarket part may be helpful to you in providing a technical assessment of the problem. If there is a reasonable possibility that the aftermarket product caused the problem, it may be best to try to reach a compromise. If, however, it is clear that the aftermarket product is unrelated to the problem, you should attempt to gather as much information as possible to support your claim. Useful evidence might include photos, copies of relevant service information, records of prior repairs performed under warranty, or the objective written opinion of a qualified third party (with relevant experience, accreditation, etc.).
Try to Work it Out With the Dealer
Once prepared with the appropriate support information and a basic understanding of the law, present the facts to the dealers service manager and make an effort to resolve the situation. Keep the discussion objective and professional. Make sure to take notes of any significant claims or explanations made by dealership personnel and try to obtain a written explanation if possible.
If discussions with the service manager do not bring about a resolution, speak with the owner of the dealership. Many problems can be resolved at this level. If there is a known pattern failure which matches your problem, be sure to bring this to the dealer's attention. The dealer is able to obtain reimbursement from the vehicle manufacturer under such circumstances. If there is no pattern failure, but other evidence that exists contradicts the dealers conclusion, be sure the dealer is made aware of it. Also explain that you are aware of your rights under EPA's emissions warranty and the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Again, if there is a reasonable possibility that either the aftermarket product or its installation could be the cause of the problem, your best bet is to suggest a compromise with the dealer. In many cases, presenting an objective technical assessment and a basic understanding of the law will do the trick.
However, if you believe that you are entitled to warranty service, but the dealer disagrees, you can take other steps to seek a resolution to the dispute.
Get it in Writing
If a dealership denies warranty coverage, they should be willing to do so in writing. Have the dealer describe the failure which is causing your problem AND how the dealer believes the aftermarket product installed is responsible for the problem. Keep an accurate log of all contacts and correspondence in addressing the warranty denial.
Contact the Vehicle Manufacturer's Zone Representative
If a car manufacturer backs your warranty, and you have a dispute with the dealer about either service or coverage, contact the local manufacturer's representative. The local or zone representative has the authority to adjust and make decisions about warranty service remedies or repairs to satisfy customers.
Some manufacturers are also willing to repair certain problems in specific models free of charge, even if the manufacturer's warranty does not cover the problem. Ask the zone representative or the service manager if there is such a policy.
The procedure for contacting your zone representative is usually provided in the vehicle owner's manual. This information can also be obtained from a dealer, or by calling the manufacturer's customer service number, as listed in the carmaker's owner's manual. Present your case to the zone representative. Be sure to indicate how the dealer responded to your information, especially if dealership personnel were notably uncooperative, etc. Once again, be sure to get as much information in writing as you can; request that any determinations or actions which are promised by the zone representative be confirmed by a letter or a fax.
Contact the Vehicle Manufacturer Directly
You may find that contact with the zone representative does not achieve resolve of the matter. If you are still not satisfied, the next step is to contact the vehicle manufacturer directly. Most carmakers maintain a contact office or a special department that is responsible for dealing with warranty issues (see Attachment B).
Using the information you have gathered and any additional information you may have to supplement your case, forward a letter directly to the vehicle manufacturer's customer service office (sometimes called dispute resolution board or something similar). Be sure to explain your situation in detail and in a logical, easy-to-understand manner. Provide as much detail as you can about your contacts with the dealer and the zone representative. Do not hesitate to state if you felt you were treated improperly or unfairly by either. The vehicle manufacturer will almost always respond to you with a letter; sometimes promptly, sometimes not. Again, be sure to retain all correspondence in case you need it for future use. Generally, the vehicle manufacturer has the greatest interest in ensuring your satisfaction; they want you to remain loyal to their brand. As such, they will likely ma
In many cases it will not be necessary to take all the steps outlined here because disputes are often resolved at an early stage.
What Does the Warranty Actually Say?
Start by re-reading the warranty documents. Become familiar with what the documents actually say, not what you think they should say. If the language is confusing, get help in understanding what it really means. Look for specific items or circumstances that may or may not be covered. Determine if there is a process specified for resolving disputes.
The Law
Federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers, dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. With regard to aftermarket parts, the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used (see Attachment A).The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law.
Check Vehicle History
Sometimes a malfunction in a new vehicle may be identified as a "pattern failure," a failure that is recognized as common to your make and model of vehicle. It may be a manufacturing defect which has become the subject of a government-mandated recall. You should check with another dealer, the vehicle manufacturer or an independent service providersuch as those listed belowto see if there are any Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs), field fixes or other service-related information for your vehicle which would indicate that the problem you are experiencing is a common one. In cases of government-mandated recalls, the dealer is obliged to notify you as a vehicle owner. However, you may check for yourself by calling the vehicle manufacturer's 800 number, the EPA (for emissions systems issues) or the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), for safety-related issues.
EPA: 202/233-9040
NHTSA: 800/424-9393
Chiltons: 610/964-4600
AllData: 916/684-5200
Motor Publications: 800/426-6897
American Automobile Manufacturers Association: 313/872-4311
Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association: 202/296-8537
Determine the True Cause of the Problem
If possible, attempt to independently verify the accuracy of the claims made by the dealership. The manufacturer of the aftermarket part may be helpful to you in providing a technical assessment of the problem. If there is a reasonable possibility that the aftermarket product caused the problem, it may be best to try to reach a compromise. If, however, it is clear that the aftermarket product is unrelated to the problem, you should attempt to gather as much information as possible to support your claim. Useful evidence might include photos, copies of relevant service information, records of prior repairs performed under warranty, or the objective written opinion of a qualified third party (with relevant experience, accreditation, etc.).
Try to Work it Out With the Dealer
Once prepared with the appropriate support information and a basic understanding of the law, present the facts to the dealers service manager and make an effort to resolve the situation. Keep the discussion objective and professional. Make sure to take notes of any significant claims or explanations made by dealership personnel and try to obtain a written explanation if possible.
If discussions with the service manager do not bring about a resolution, speak with the owner of the dealership. Many problems can be resolved at this level. If there is a known pattern failure which matches your problem, be sure to bring this to the dealer's attention. The dealer is able to obtain reimbursement from the vehicle manufacturer under such circumstances. If there is no pattern failure, but other evidence that exists contradicts the dealers conclusion, be sure the dealer is made aware of it. Also explain that you are aware of your rights under EPA's emissions warranty and the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Again, if there is a reasonable possibility that either the aftermarket product or its installation could be the cause of the problem, your best bet is to suggest a compromise with the dealer. In many cases, presenting an objective technical assessment and a basic understanding of the law will do the trick.
However, if you believe that you are entitled to warranty service, but the dealer disagrees, you can take other steps to seek a resolution to the dispute.
Get it in Writing
If a dealership denies warranty coverage, they should be willing to do so in writing. Have the dealer describe the failure which is causing your problem AND how the dealer believes the aftermarket product installed is responsible for the problem. Keep an accurate log of all contacts and correspondence in addressing the warranty denial.
Contact the Vehicle Manufacturer's Zone Representative
If a car manufacturer backs your warranty, and you have a dispute with the dealer about either service or coverage, contact the local manufacturer's representative. The local or zone representative has the authority to adjust and make decisions about warranty service remedies or repairs to satisfy customers.
Some manufacturers are also willing to repair certain problems in specific models free of charge, even if the manufacturer's warranty does not cover the problem. Ask the zone representative or the service manager if there is such a policy.
The procedure for contacting your zone representative is usually provided in the vehicle owner's manual. This information can also be obtained from a dealer, or by calling the manufacturer's customer service number, as listed in the carmaker's owner's manual. Present your case to the zone representative. Be sure to indicate how the dealer responded to your information, especially if dealership personnel were notably uncooperative, etc. Once again, be sure to get as much information in writing as you can; request that any determinations or actions which are promised by the zone representative be confirmed by a letter or a fax.
Contact the Vehicle Manufacturer Directly
You may find that contact with the zone representative does not achieve resolve of the matter. If you are still not satisfied, the next step is to contact the vehicle manufacturer directly. Most carmakers maintain a contact office or a special department that is responsible for dealing with warranty issues (see Attachment B).
Using the information you have gathered and any additional information you may have to supplement your case, forward a letter directly to the vehicle manufacturer's customer service office (sometimes called dispute resolution board or something similar). Be sure to explain your situation in detail and in a logical, easy-to-understand manner. Provide as much detail as you can about your contacts with the dealer and the zone representative. Do not hesitate to state if you felt you were treated improperly or unfairly by either. The vehicle manufacturer will almost always respond to you with a letter; sometimes promptly, sometimes not. Again, be sure to retain all correspondence in case you need it for future use. Generally, the vehicle manufacturer has the greatest interest in ensuring your satisfaction; they want you to remain loyal to their brand. As such, they will likely ma