scrming

Have you heard a ProCharger S/C? Definitely not a sleeper... LOL! Now my Zex Nitrous that's a sleeper... LOL! Right now just running the 100HP jets but may move to the 125HP jets... even with all the extras (heater, purge, gauge, blow down).... around $900... I can fill a lot of bottles for the difference... LOL! And you'll never know it's there until it's too late... hehehehe....

jthorn9

I hope you know that when they say 50-60% increase they mean hp off the flywheel. Realistically you will only gain about 60-150, depending on the stage, rwhp. You can increase this number, but you will have to add in bigger gears, a larger camshaft, and a t-lok rear wheel differential to take full advantage of your added on hp, as well as a true flow dual exhaust system.[sm=headbang.gif]

flapjack

Ummmm.... the rated HP is at the flywheel, so what is your point??

65% of 210 HP (stock) is an additional 136.5 HP. You don't have to be an ASE certified technician to figure you'll get more than 60 HP out of a SC.

Also, I'm not sure where you got the 150 HP from, but that would be more than the advertised 65% max HP gain, and therefore counters the point you're trying to make.

I can't wait for someone to hook this badboy up to a stock V6 and post the before/after dynos. That's the only real way to know. Though I'm gonna risk a bet that the person that runs out and gets this system does not have a stock V6.....

jthorn9

Rated at the flywheel is your engine hp, but you loose a lot of that power to your pulley system, gear settings, and exhaust. Your rear wheel hp is your cars actual hp output. Now let me rephrase my 150 hp gain statement. 150 hp gain would be the absolute maximum you would get with a stage 3 sc kit with a lot of money invested under the hood, 150 hp gain on a stock car would be pretty hard to hit, more over you would get this type of gain on the V8 model, not a V6. On the flip side 60 hp is your bare minimum. Yes you would get roughly 135 hp @ 65%, but that is yet again with a car that has a lot of money invested in it, you would likely see a gain of about 80-90 maybe at best 100 rwhp on a stock engine because your gears can't take the extra hp, so you loose a lot of it trying to send the power to the wheels, this is why you need a 4.10:1 gear kit and a rear wheel differential, you will also need a dual exhaust system to allow the car to fully release all of that excess air, hence the reason why you would only get about a 80-90 hp gain on a stock car, you also based your hp gain on a percentage larger than advertised. 50% 170 (your rwhp) is about 85. 60% of 170 is 102. There is a guy that has done a couple of mods to his 03 V8 stang along with a sc kit and he only runs at 354 rwhp, so including his mods he only gained about 120hp, and thats on a modified V8.[sm=vader.gif]

flapjack

Wow, I'm starting to think you need to do some reading. Here is a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

Here's a quote from that page for your reading pleasure:
Sorry if I come across as a jerk, I just don't like it when people start yammering about how you're only gonna get less than half the advertised gains from upgrades. The best is when people say intakes don't do anything. I put a K&N on my 2002 Avalanche, and dyno'd it before and after. Without a tune, I had a 13 HP gain and a 17 ft/lbs torque gain. That was even more than what K&N advertised. Unfortunately, I don't have a friend that runs a dyno here in Colorado Springs, and I'm not about to blow money just to see what my dual exhaust/intake combo did on my V6. The seat of the pants feeling shows an increase, but definitely not like on my truck....

Now to agree on a few things, you're right. There is no way you could get 150 on a V6 w/o money under the hood. But no one even said that. Like I said.... that's even higher than what ProCharger advertised! I was just confused because your post said you could expect a 60-150 HP gain, but you didn't mention that'd be with expensive upgrades. To further clarify, 150 is not possible with that SC alone. You might get 150 with the serious under the hood mods you're talking about, but then those horsies wouldn't be from the SC, would they? They'd be from whatever mods you're talking about (cams, rockers, heads, etc...)

However, you could get the advertised 65% gain that ProCharger is pimping, with moderate upgrades, which is probably what they were thinking when they posted that number.

As far as the rear-end goes, the gear ratio, whether 3.73 or 4.10, has nothing to do with power, only rate of acceleration. Period. It does not make a car more powerful, nor does it allow more "power to the wheels". The T-lok on the other hand would, because it in effect eliminates the single-wheel spin when traction is broken.

Also, you said that I quoted a "larger than advertised" gain? Here's a quote from the RPMOutlet page for the supercharger in question:

Also, take a quick trip to Procharger.com and you'll see a picture advertising 65%. Here's the pic, if you don't feel like going there:



65% of 170 rwhp is 110 HP. Even though I would argue 170 is a little low for rwhp on a stock V6, can anyone verify this with a stock dyno??

Anyways... I don't want to argue about this with you. I'm sure you'd get somewhere between the 80-90 you're saying and the 135 ProCharger would like people to believe. I just personally feel it would be closer to the 110-120 mark.

We'll have to wait for someone to install it, because I sure as hell don't have the cash for it!!!

flapjack

I forgot to mention... this kit on Ebay looks a bit better:

SC350 Mustang Supercharger

This is not intercooled, and he's advertising a 350 crank/310 rear-wheel gain, without an intercooler. The page also says upgrading to the Stage II kit (intercooler included) will add another 40 HP.

Several people have e-mailed this guy, and he said this was a dyno'd result. Using the 350 crank/310 rwhp ratio to calculate what we're getting on a stock V6 to the rear wheels would give you about 186 HP.

Here's my figuring:

Ratio of rear-wheel to flywheel HP, as dyno'd
310 (rw) / 350 (crank) = 0.886%

Apply that ratio to a stock V6 and you get
210 (stock flywheel HP) x 0.886% = 186 HP

The supercharger or any other engine mods should not affect this ratio.... maybe transmission mods, though.

jthorn9

First of all dude, when I said 4.10:1 gears and a t-lock gives you more power to the wheels I didn't infer that a 4.10:1 gear set up generates power, it simply transfers more power from the driveline to the differential to the wheels. By the way isn't hp a ratio between "accelleration" distance and time. So if you raise your accelleration you in turn raise your rwhp, not your engine hp. By the way the there is a person with an 05 that did a dyno run and his test showed that your mustang has around 170 rwhp, hell the 99-04s I know for shure have a little over 160. Yes your year does have 210 and the 99-04s have 190 or 193, but like I said hp is lost due to pulley systems, gear setups, and actual car weight, so the rwhp numbers are always lower than the cars engine hp numbers, hell the 05 GTs run around 265 rwhp. As far as my 150 hp gain statement goes you just reitterated what I said, I just gave the hp range for mustangs in genral, sorry I forgot I was in the 05-06 forum. And when I said larger than advertised gain, I was refering to what another person stated. Yes I now see that it says 50-65% gain in hp. Lets face it, you are probably not going to get 50% nor will you get 65% you'll probably land somewhere in between. Also sorry, K&N does not give you that much of a power boost on a mustang, maybe 1-3 rwhp at best. Not saying your lying because I do believe, K&N filters just have better effects on some cars rather than others. So don't beleive everything you guys see in an ad, because when a company says that a cai will add up to 20 hp to your car their probably full of it, more like 5-10 rwhp, seriously with my mods I should be around 200 hp+ but I know I'm not, so don't let the ads fool you.

MustangScott

Holy Smoke! That was awesome! That argument taught me a whole lot. I love you guys. Keep scrappin! I might learn me a thang or two. . . Someone told me that stock engine w/ stock internals could only handle 100% increas safely. Now by my calculations . . . 420hp.. with appx. 340rwhp, (at 100%) You guys are having this car brought way close to the line. What would that do to engine life and so forth. *Ducks* Dont flame me teach me! hehe

scrming

I didn't read every word... but... 170RWHP is about right for a stock 05 V6 automatic. Here' s a dyno from a completely stock V6 auto. Red is completely stock. Blue is with an X-Cal2 tune.



Now here is a completely stock 05 GT automatic. The GT is blue and my 05 V6 auto with 100HP shot of nitrous (along with tune, CAI and muffler) is red.



I've heard from a few different people... ProCharger tend to overrate their HP gains...

scrming

Which is why I ended up with the Zex kit... I can fill a lot of bottles for the amount of money I saved over the S/C....