Powerhouse Turbocharger!
01-14-2006, 11:31 AM
#41
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,172
RE: Powerhouse Turbocharger!
ORIGINAL: scrming
I've been toying with the idea of a new TC for a while now... but to be honest I'm concerned about being able to hold the car back.. with the 4.10s and stock brakes I can barely hold the car back at 1800 RPM... LOL! Also this is a daily driver... how would this affect my day to day driving?
I've been toying with the idea of a new TC for a while now... but to be honest I'm concerned about being able to hold the car back.. with the 4.10s and stock brakes I can barely hold the car back at 1800 RPM... LOL! Also this is a daily driver... how would this affect my day to day driving?
01-14-2006, 11:45 AM
#42
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location:
Posts: 766
RE: Powerhouse Turbocharger!
ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke
So John, based on this, we should still be ok with our 4.10s (cause we are autos), based on Mikes reasoning that he uses 3.3/3.55's to keep the power at the lower rpms? Thoughts?
So John, based on this, we should still be ok with our 4.10s (cause we are autos), based on Mikes reasoning that he uses 3.3/3.55's to keep the power at the lower rpms? Thoughts?
01-14-2006, 12:44 PM
#43
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,144
RE: Powerhouse Turbocharger!
I'll try to address everyones concerns here, if I miss something let me know.
Auto's will be less harsh on the drivetran ( t-brakes are an exception), and yes it is because there is less shock or impact from the trans back.
A loose converter, something around 3000 stall, would be a sweet setup with the turbo. That would allow you to powerbrake the car at the starting line and build boost (maybe 5-7 psi) before you even leave the line. That would make a wicked launch, and with tires could set you up for a low 1.6 60ft.
The reason for a low gear is simple, the combo makes huge torque, you use this torque to propel the car down the track, early shifts help keep the motor in the "sweet spot" around peak torque and cruise through the traps around the peak power.
In n/a form the motor needed the mechanical advantage of the steeper gear to get the car moving, and to get it down the track. When we were running the n2o, we should have run a little less gear like a 3.73 or 3.55 but we chose to leave the 4.10 in the car then, did it make it quicker, I do not think so.
Our car has yet to 60 ft like I would like it to, we are working on a clutch combo as well as a few other things that should help .
Bottom end strength should be looked at in terms of HP not psi (as hp can change at the same psi by dictating cylinder pressure via ignition timing), The higher the cylinder pressure the higher the risk of damage, the higher the rpm the higher the risk of damage, now combine the two and youve greatly increased that risk. This may be a bit exagerated but I am just triyng to clarify some of the factors.
The 4.0 has a decent (not exceptional) crank and rod combo, it should hold up fairly well, the pistons are a bit of a concern as they are probably the weakest link.
We feel that the 9 and 7 psi combos are a good safe combo that will provide a good time for all, and help the motor live a long happy life, the 11.5 psi is somthing that can be run on pump gas and would reccomend a custom tune, as power increases the margin of error begins to deminish, and it should be spot on.
I hope that I got to answer everyones concerns, if you need anything else feel free to give me a shout.
Auto's will be less harsh on the drivetran ( t-brakes are an exception), and yes it is because there is less shock or impact from the trans back.
A loose converter, something around 3000 stall, would be a sweet setup with the turbo. That would allow you to powerbrake the car at the starting line and build boost (maybe 5-7 psi) before you even leave the line. That would make a wicked launch, and with tires could set you up for a low 1.6 60ft.
The reason for a low gear is simple, the combo makes huge torque, you use this torque to propel the car down the track, early shifts help keep the motor in the "sweet spot" around peak torque and cruise through the traps around the peak power.
In n/a form the motor needed the mechanical advantage of the steeper gear to get the car moving, and to get it down the track. When we were running the n2o, we should have run a little less gear like a 3.73 or 3.55 but we chose to leave the 4.10 in the car then, did it make it quicker, I do not think so.
Our car has yet to 60 ft like I would like it to, we are working on a clutch combo as well as a few other things that should help .
Bottom end strength should be looked at in terms of HP not psi (as hp can change at the same psi by dictating cylinder pressure via ignition timing), The higher the cylinder pressure the higher the risk of damage, the higher the rpm the higher the risk of damage, now combine the two and youve greatly increased that risk. This may be a bit exagerated but I am just triyng to clarify some of the factors.
The 4.0 has a decent (not exceptional) crank and rod combo, it should hold up fairly well, the pistons are a bit of a concern as they are probably the weakest link.
We feel that the 9 and 7 psi combos are a good safe combo that will provide a good time for all, and help the motor live a long happy life, the 11.5 psi is somthing that can be run on pump gas and would reccomend a custom tune, as power increases the margin of error begins to deminish, and it should be spot on.
I hope that I got to answer everyones concerns, if you need anything else feel free to give me a shout.
Mike I have gleamed a lot of information from your responses and I am crystal clear on a lot of important things to me now and IMO I also see good clear advantages to running your system now vs. other charger systems out there. I will have to give more serious thought and absorbed the information but believe me it is good!!
This is why by coming here was good for you, me and other people, I hope alot of other people see what I see when making their decisions and the advanges of your turbo.
I want to commend you for building what looks to be a excellent turbo system for the V6, a system that wasn’t just slapped together and put out there for sale, but that was R&D over the course of a YEAR with a lot of track time included to back it up in terms of reliability.
Thanks again Mike
TJ
01-14-2006, 01:06 PM
#44
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,750
RE: Powerhouse Turbocharger!
ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke
So John, based on this, we should still be ok with our 4.10s (cause we are autos), based on Mikes reasoning that he uses 3.3/3.55's to keep the power at the lower rpms? Thoughts?
ORIGINAL: scrming
Well, not one to be shy I thought I'ld chime in! LOL!
I've had some long discusions about this very thing with a couple of guys in the know... The feeling is that an automatic is a lot less harsh on the rear end... Couple of things that were pointed out to me...
1) An automatic tranny will absorb a lot of the shock... My guess here is because you have a fluid coupling in the TC, not a hard solid coupling like in a manual.... I could be wrong but I was told that the auto does absorb some of the shock what ever the reason...
2) With an automatic you preload the drivetrain... this also helps to reduce the shock...
3) With the stock Torque Convertor you'll be launching at 2000 RPM or less... not 5000RPM..
So based on those things the people I've talked to think the 7.5 should hold up reasonably well... But of course I'm still a little leary...
ORIGINAL: Jimp
Auto. I may get drag radials sometime soon. I meant the question for Mike but I welcome any responses. Only thing that worries me now is the axles and driveshaft if I hit it hard, which I probably will!
ORIGINAL: scrming
I'm sorry Jimp... remind me... auto or stick? (keep the smarty pants comments to a minimum please! LOL!)
Do you plan on ever running slicks? DRs?
I'm sorry Jimp... remind me... auto or stick? (keep the smarty pants comments to a minimum please! LOL!)
Do you plan on ever running slicks? DRs?
I've had some long discusions about this very thing with a couple of guys in the know... The feeling is that an automatic is a lot less harsh on the rear end... Couple of things that were pointed out to me...
1) An automatic tranny will absorb a lot of the shock... My guess here is because you have a fluid coupling in the TC, not a hard solid coupling like in a manual.... I could be wrong but I was told that the auto does absorb some of the shock what ever the reason...
2) With an automatic you preload the drivetrain... this also helps to reduce the shock...
3) With the stock Torque Convertor you'll be launching at 2000 RPM or less... not 5000RPM..
So based on those things the people I've talked to think the 7.5 should hold up reasonably well... But of course I'm still a little leary...
With our N/A setups we need to put in the gears to give us that extra torque we need to get our cars moving down the track... When I put in my 4.10s I really had no idea I would be adding the Zex... LOL! Now if you add a power adder like the Zex or Mike's turbo that has a lot of torque down load then you don't need the gears to get the car moving... You can get away with the stock 3.31.... Lidio has told me on more than one occasion that I should have left my 3.31s in... however since I only use the Zex at the track, i'll leave my 4.10s in for the stop light to stop light fun! LOL!
I'm sure i'm not explaining this that best way... but basically with the 4.10s i'm actually getting to much torque and I end up spinning... So it's either:
A) go back to stock 3.31
B) Live with tire spin
C) Put on sticky tires and see what I can break... LOL
For now I think I'm stuck with B...
BTW... you could have a custom tune setup for the track with your shift point lowered a bit to keep you in the proper RPM zone... At WOT the shift schedule is not based on MPH but on RPM....
01-14-2006, 02:06 PM
#45
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,144
RE: Powerhouse Turbocharger!
Jimp
If you have an auto I guess you could just set the program to shift at 5800rpm. That might be what mine shifts at now, dunno.
If you have an auto I guess you could just set the program to shift at 5800rpm. That might be what mine shifts at now, dunno.
Ok automatic or stick would not matter because going to a 3.55 vs. 410 for the following reason. the 355 will be keeping the motor in the rpm power band range longer during each shift point this will allow the turbo to build more HP & TQ during each shift RPM range. Now if you run 4.10's you run through the RPM range faster auto or stick during each shift time there for not allowing the turbo to build max HP & TQ as it would with the 3.55.
I would also like to add the 3.55 you are able to run with Mikes turbo makes for a great daily drive better MPG along with highway cruising per RPM and a better gear for a little street action on street tires.
Its just all in all a win win situation.
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