Does anyone want to know how to convert a carb?
05-04-2011, 04:24 PM
#23
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: So. Cal,the O.C.
Posts: 1,538
05-04-2011, 08:22 PM
#25
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Marquette Mi
Posts: 3,566
THUMPIN455, it was a discussion you and I had in another thread about a year and a half ago that got me thinking about E85 (thanks!). I was not in favor of it then, but after that discussion I began researching it and I switched to E85 in my 65. It wasn't cheap - larger injectors (60#), stainless steel fuel tank, new feed line, 2nd fuel pump, getting rid of natural rubber and finding materials (even sealers) that are alcohol resistant - but it's great. It allows me to run a roots-type blower with 10.5:1 compression (a recipe for disaster on 91-93 octane gas) and makes lots of torque and power with zero detonation issues. I have found that my average mileage went down about 25% (from 20 to 15 mpg ave) but that works out to the same price per mile as premium (depending on how much the spread is, sometimes it's cheaper than premium).
E85 burns cooler and has an effective octane rating of 105 (or more, depending on the blend - summer, winter). It won't do much good for a typical engine because a typical engine doesn't need the extra octane (which is why flex-fuel vehicles don't see any difference, and sometimes get much worse mileage). But for high performance engines - high compression or boost - it allows a lot more timing to be run safely. In the magazine tests, it's not unusual to see 5%-10% more power on a supercharged motor just by switching to E85. It is so resistant to detonation that you can actually push timing past peak torque before it starts pinging. It's the 'poor man's racing fuel'.
The only downside is that it's harder to find so I have to plan my trips and watch the fuel gauge. That, and the fact that my car smells like a moonshiner's still when it starts
. Bottom line: I don't save any money, but it doesn't cost any more. The advantages are (for me) performance advantages.
E85 burns cooler and has an effective octane rating of 105 (or more, depending on the blend - summer, winter). It won't do much good for a typical engine because a typical engine doesn't need the extra octane (which is why flex-fuel vehicles don't see any difference, and sometimes get much worse mileage). But for high performance engines - high compression or boost - it allows a lot more timing to be run safely. In the magazine tests, it's not unusual to see 5%-10% more power on a supercharged motor just by switching to E85. It is so resistant to detonation that you can actually push timing past peak torque before it starts pinging. It's the 'poor man's racing fuel'.
The only downside is that it's harder to find so I have to plan my trips and watch the fuel gauge. That, and the fact that my car smells like a moonshiner's still when it starts
. Bottom line: I don't save any money, but it doesn't cost any more. The advantages are (for me) performance advantages.You know you didnt need a stainless tank, and the parts that will work for 10% ethanol will work with 100% ethanol, and that is pretty much any fuel system part made in the USA since 1985. Its nice to have all that, but its overkill for ethanol. Methanol REQUIRES all of that and more, like a top end lube and draining the tank and fuel bowls every night. Just some info, and Im glad you like it. If you are running boost or compression its tough to beat ethanol.
If you tune for power you wont gain much in the way of mileage, and most people dont know how to tune ethanol for mileage. They go with the same stuff that works for gas, and yes you are going to lose mileage. You can do so much more with ethanol and it is far easier to tune and still make good power. I would bet your car is running far richer than it needs to be, that is where best power is.
05-04-2011, 08:34 PM
#26
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 439
You know you didnt need a stainless tank, and the parts that will work for 10% ethanol will work with 100% ethanol, and that is pretty much any fuel system part made in the USA since 1985. Its nice to have all that, but its overkill for ethanol. Methanol REQUIRES all of that and more, like a top end lube and draining the tank and fuel bowls every night. Just some info, and Im glad you like it. If you are running boost or compression its tough to beat ethanol.
05-04-2011, 08:44 PM
#27
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Marquette Mi
Posts: 3,566
I guess if you like to wear your engine out much faster, varnish the fuel system pretty bad, clog everything up with black carbon deposits, have much more frequent oil changes, be limited on compression and power, waste fuel heating the engine to the point you need lots more cooling capacity to dump that waste heat into the air, then sure you dont want anything to do with ethanol.
If you dont mind paying a dollar more at the pump like we do up here, then gas is for you. Why doesnt California have more pumps? Well probably because the people running CARB are either employed by oil/coal companies or their spouse is. Seriously. The Chariwomans husband is the lawyer who defended Exxon in the Valdez spill, and they both have stock in the company. Look into it if you dont believe it. Not a big deal to me since I dont live in CA.
The small engine thing, the boat hysteria, and people telling you its horrible for your car are all the same thing. Bunk. I realize I am not going to convince anyone that they have been misled or outright lied to, so if you want to know how to set up a carb, and how to build an engine to take advantage of ethanol, send me a PM.
This is my 13:1 455, should be right around 500hp/tq and the first goal is 20mpg with an old Quadrajet carb. I got 455s to do that on 10% and 9:1, so it shouldnt be that difficult on ethanol. I am confident I can do much better with an overdrive trans and EFI while keeping the power, but 20 is the first place to start. I already got 15mpg from an 11:1 455 with 4.10 gears and an 850 Holley on race gas, so if you want to know about it I will let you see it later.
That engine is going in this car next week. After its broken in and I get some rust issues fixed on a Trans Am I have, it will go in that one.
If you dont mind paying a dollar more at the pump like we do up here, then gas is for you. Why doesnt California have more pumps? Well probably because the people running CARB are either employed by oil/coal companies or their spouse is. Seriously. The Chariwomans husband is the lawyer who defended Exxon in the Valdez spill, and they both have stock in the company. Look into it if you dont believe it. Not a big deal to me since I dont live in CA.
The small engine thing, the boat hysteria, and people telling you its horrible for your car are all the same thing. Bunk. I realize I am not going to convince anyone that they have been misled or outright lied to, so if you want to know how to set up a carb, and how to build an engine to take advantage of ethanol, send me a PM.
This is my 13:1 455, should be right around 500hp/tq and the first goal is 20mpg with an old Quadrajet carb. I got 455s to do that on 10% and 9:1, so it shouldnt be that difficult on ethanol. I am confident I can do much better with an overdrive trans and EFI while keeping the power, but 20 is the first place to start. I already got 15mpg from an 11:1 455 with 4.10 gears and an 850 Holley on race gas, so if you want to know about it I will let you see it later.
That engine is going in this car next week. After its broken in and I get some rust issues fixed on a Trans Am I have, it will go in that one.
05-04-2011, 08:53 PM
#28
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 710
I saw a guy at the Indy good guys running e85 and he ran high tens in a vintage truck, it was impressive with a giant blower etc...
I saw him a few months later and he had a new motor, turns out he purchased a 55 gallon drum of bad fuel that had water in it and it ruined his race motor.
Now, I'm all for trying e85 in a stockish motor without any real concern but have you run into any problems with the water issue yourself?
I saw him a few months later and he had a new motor, turns out he purchased a 55 gallon drum of bad fuel that had water in it and it ruined his race motor.
Now, I'm all for trying e85 in a stockish motor without any real concern but have you run into any problems with the water issue yourself?
05-04-2011, 09:07 PM
#29
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 5,896
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA
maybe you're lucky, but i guess you'd need to re-tune if you keep changing
maybe you're lucky, but i guess you'd need to re-tune if you keep changing
05-04-2011, 09:36 PM
#30
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 439
If you tune for power you wont gain much in the way of mileage, and most people dont know how to tune ethanol for mileage. They go with the same stuff that works for gas, and yes you are going to lose mileage. You can do so much more with ethanol and it is far easier to tune and still make good power. I would bet your car is running far richer than it needs to be, that is where best power is.
It sure is fun when I do put my foot in it though. 
It's also fun to 'splain' why I'm putting E85 in this old car when I fuel up. I usually have to open the hood to 'splain' it.