Finally gonna do some suspension stuff.
Thread Starter
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 884
From: New York, New York
Finally gonna do some suspension stuff.
I posted this in the 4.6 Handling Specific section but it got like 2 views so I thought I'd post it here as well.
IMHO susupension is the most overlooked thing by stang owners...myself included...lol... So I'm starting to do my suspension stuff and here's my first round.
Roush rear springs.
BMR adjustable panhard bar with polyurethane bushings.
BMR adjustable LCA's with polyurethane bushings.
I guess for right now my goal is to eliminate the horrible wheel hop, level out my car and improve the performance a little. This set up will probably run me about 500 and I'm willing to shell out another hundred or two to add parts since I'll be under the car.
ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!
How's my start? Am I overlooking anything? I already know that its not an absolute MUST to add the adjustable panhard, but I want it to be perfect so I'm adding it. lol...
IMHO susupension is the most overlooked thing by stang owners...myself included...lol... So I'm starting to do my suspension stuff and here's my first round.
Roush rear springs.
BMR adjustable panhard bar with polyurethane bushings.
BMR adjustable LCA's with polyurethane bushings.
I guess for right now my goal is to eliminate the horrible wheel hop, level out my car and improve the performance a little. This set up will probably run me about 500 and I'm willing to shell out another hundred or two to add parts since I'll be under the car.
ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!
How's my start? Am I overlooking anything? I already know that its not an absolute MUST to add the adjustable panhard, but I want it to be perfect so I'm adding it. lol...
Thread Starter
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 884
From: New York, New York
RE: Finally gonna do some suspension stuff.
yeah, but my front is already kinda low as is (with the roush front fascia and lip) and I'm not sure I wanna drop it any more.
decisions....decisions.
decisions....decisions.
1st Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 54
From: Houston, Tx.
RE: Finally gonna do some suspension stuff.
Here is something I got off another forum.
Guide to Properly Lowering your S197 [/align][hr]
Factory Mustang suspensions are usually designed as an attempt to be all things to all people. If you’re just using it as a highway cruiser, then the stock system will be more than adequate for you. If you are a member of the other side of the coin, who enjoys making passes at the dragstrip, hitting open track and autocross events, modifying the factory suspension is one of the best ways to get your power to ground. By optimizing the suspension geometry, the potential to take turns at higher speeds and knocking down your 60’ times at the dragstrip increases drastically. Usually, an added benefit is a lowered stance, which helps fill up the wheel gaps and adds a more appealing look.
When picking out your suspension, the first step should be to look at what your end goals are: more competent street driving, drag racing, lapping days, full racing. No suspension setup will be ideal for all of those conditions. At the same time, many of us are looking for a happy medium, picking suspension bits that will make the car more fun to drive on a daily basis, take the car to the odd open track and test and tune night at the dragstrip. This setup probably won’t get you the best possible results for those situations, but will make your car more enjoyable on the weekends and the drive to work every day.
I will describe some of the factors that have to be considered when you are lowering a car for improved looks and performance. There will be simplified explanations of some issues and can be researched in more detail if desired. I have consulted with Gus from Steeda about some of these issues. He was very helpful in putting together this package, in addition to being a sponsor of the site.
Front Suspension
There are two critical points with the geometry of a front suspension, the center of gravity and the roll center.
The center of gravity as defined in highschool physics: is a specific point at which, for many purposes, the system's mass behaves as if it were concentrated
The roll center is an imaginary point created by the intersection of the extension of the lines that follow the control arms. On a car with McPherson struts, it is found by drawing a line through the lower ball joint and lower control arm pivot (bushing). You follow that by drawing a line starting from the upper strut bearing, perpendicular to the line of travel of the strut.
The roll center is where these two lines intersect. Keep in mind, the roll center changes with body roll and suspension travel as it is a dynamic point
The ideal suspension design keeps the roll center and center of gravity as close together as possible. The farther they are apart, the more pronounced body roll will be. Essentially, the distance between these two points results act as moment arm when cornering forces are applied, the larger the distance between the two points, the greater the body roll.
By lowering a car, you change the relationship between these two points, moving the two points farther apart and actually increasing body roll. This can be counteracted by using a fatter swaybar. To truly correct the geometry though, requires tweaking the locations of pieces in the front suspension.
Steeda sells two different kits to raise the instant center. The X5 Ball Joint and the Control Arm Relocator Kit. The X5 ball joint kit raises IC slightly less than the relocator kit. The difference is minute enough that only a seasoned track driver would notice the difference. While the ball joint kit is slightly more expensive and does not change the IC as much, there is much less labor to install the joint, as no welding is required. If the car is being lowered substantially (ex. Eibach Sportlines), then both kits can be paired up to correct the geometry.
These two kits are compatible with any quality suspension system on the market.
Note: The X5 balljoint kit requires the use of an 18" wheel because the lower control arm mounts lower at the front spindle and will interfere with 17" wheels.
Bump Steer
When changing the front geometry, you can also negatively affect a property called bump steer. Technically, bump steer is the change in toe as the suspension travels. What happens is because the tie rod is traveling at a different arc than the control arms, it will tend to change the toe when it hits a bump. What that means to you is when your suspension is bottoming out or hitting a hard bump, the tire will move as if the car was steered slightly causing the car to jump in one direction or the other. Obviously, this is not ideal, especially when running at the limit on a road course.
The fix for this is the bumpsteer kit. It corrects the angle of the tie rod ends in relation to the spindle to minimize the effect. Bump steer is most pronounced the more a car is lowered (1.5†and more) and if the suspension geometry is changed.
Camber Adjustment
The factory struts and spindles do not have enough camber adjustment to get proper factory alignments (and even tire wear) when the car is lowered. If you do a search on the forum, you will see that people using mild drops (Steeda, Roush, Saleen), can sometimes get their cars aligned to spec. The majority of users having steeper drops (Eibach, FRPP) almost always need to have some kind of camber correction kit.
Options:
Camber Bolts. (Fox style shown)
These bolts mount off-center with an eccentric. This allows the technician to get the camber within spec. This is the cheapest solution; you do however run the risk of getting the camber out of spec if you hit a large pothole for example. These kits are more than acceptable for street use.
Camber Plates:
These plates allow a large range of motion and allow for custom camber settings for track days. They are more expensive than camber bolts but allow the greatest adjustment and least potential for camber change.
Upper Strut Mounts:
This is potentially another point of adjustment in addition to curing an additional problem. The upper strut mounts are made from plastic on the new cars. The service manual even suggests replacing them in the event the strut assembly is disassembled. Many members have reported the strut popping returning after using lowering springs on the car. Steeda offers a new upper strut bearing which is CNC machined and will cure any strut popping problems down the road. One major benefit is that there is +/- 1 degree of camber adjustment. This means that you can additional front suspension adjustability without the use of camber bolts of caster/camber plates. For custom alignment settings on road courses, caster camber plates should be used in tandem with this setup.
Springs
The purpose of lowering springs is to bring down the center of gravity of the car. Because the effective height of the spring is decreased, the spring rates (stiffness) are usually increased to keep the suspension from bottoming out. The obvious tradeoff to this
Guide to Properly Lowering your S197 [/align][hr]
Factory Mustang suspensions are usually designed as an attempt to be all things to all people. If you’re just using it as a highway cruiser, then the stock system will be more than adequate for you. If you are a member of the other side of the coin, who enjoys making passes at the dragstrip, hitting open track and autocross events, modifying the factory suspension is one of the best ways to get your power to ground. By optimizing the suspension geometry, the potential to take turns at higher speeds and knocking down your 60’ times at the dragstrip increases drastically. Usually, an added benefit is a lowered stance, which helps fill up the wheel gaps and adds a more appealing look.
When picking out your suspension, the first step should be to look at what your end goals are: more competent street driving, drag racing, lapping days, full racing. No suspension setup will be ideal for all of those conditions. At the same time, many of us are looking for a happy medium, picking suspension bits that will make the car more fun to drive on a daily basis, take the car to the odd open track and test and tune night at the dragstrip. This setup probably won’t get you the best possible results for those situations, but will make your car more enjoyable on the weekends and the drive to work every day.
I will describe some of the factors that have to be considered when you are lowering a car for improved looks and performance. There will be simplified explanations of some issues and can be researched in more detail if desired. I have consulted with Gus from Steeda about some of these issues. He was very helpful in putting together this package, in addition to being a sponsor of the site.
Front Suspension
There are two critical points with the geometry of a front suspension, the center of gravity and the roll center.
The center of gravity as defined in highschool physics: is a specific point at which, for many purposes, the system's mass behaves as if it were concentrated
The roll center is an imaginary point created by the intersection of the extension of the lines that follow the control arms. On a car with McPherson struts, it is found by drawing a line through the lower ball joint and lower control arm pivot (bushing). You follow that by drawing a line starting from the upper strut bearing, perpendicular to the line of travel of the strut.
The roll center is where these two lines intersect. Keep in mind, the roll center changes with body roll and suspension travel as it is a dynamic point
The ideal suspension design keeps the roll center and center of gravity as close together as possible. The farther they are apart, the more pronounced body roll will be. Essentially, the distance between these two points results act as moment arm when cornering forces are applied, the larger the distance between the two points, the greater the body roll.
By lowering a car, you change the relationship between these two points, moving the two points farther apart and actually increasing body roll. This can be counteracted by using a fatter swaybar. To truly correct the geometry though, requires tweaking the locations of pieces in the front suspension.
Steeda sells two different kits to raise the instant center. The X5 Ball Joint and the Control Arm Relocator Kit. The X5 ball joint kit raises IC slightly less than the relocator kit. The difference is minute enough that only a seasoned track driver would notice the difference. While the ball joint kit is slightly more expensive and does not change the IC as much, there is much less labor to install the joint, as no welding is required. If the car is being lowered substantially (ex. Eibach Sportlines), then both kits can be paired up to correct the geometry.
These two kits are compatible with any quality suspension system on the market.
Note: The X5 balljoint kit requires the use of an 18" wheel because the lower control arm mounts lower at the front spindle and will interfere with 17" wheels.
Bump Steer
When changing the front geometry, you can also negatively affect a property called bump steer. Technically, bump steer is the change in toe as the suspension travels. What happens is because the tie rod is traveling at a different arc than the control arms, it will tend to change the toe when it hits a bump. What that means to you is when your suspension is bottoming out or hitting a hard bump, the tire will move as if the car was steered slightly causing the car to jump in one direction or the other. Obviously, this is not ideal, especially when running at the limit on a road course.
The fix for this is the bumpsteer kit. It corrects the angle of the tie rod ends in relation to the spindle to minimize the effect. Bump steer is most pronounced the more a car is lowered (1.5†and more) and if the suspension geometry is changed.
Camber Adjustment
The factory struts and spindles do not have enough camber adjustment to get proper factory alignments (and even tire wear) when the car is lowered. If you do a search on the forum, you will see that people using mild drops (Steeda, Roush, Saleen), can sometimes get their cars aligned to spec. The majority of users having steeper drops (Eibach, FRPP) almost always need to have some kind of camber correction kit.
Options:
Camber Bolts. (Fox style shown)
These bolts mount off-center with an eccentric. This allows the technician to get the camber within spec. This is the cheapest solution; you do however run the risk of getting the camber out of spec if you hit a large pothole for example. These kits are more than acceptable for street use.
Camber Plates:
These plates allow a large range of motion and allow for custom camber settings for track days. They are more expensive than camber bolts but allow the greatest adjustment and least potential for camber change.
Upper Strut Mounts:
This is potentially another point of adjustment in addition to curing an additional problem. The upper strut mounts are made from plastic on the new cars. The service manual even suggests replacing them in the event the strut assembly is disassembled. Many members have reported the strut popping returning after using lowering springs on the car. Steeda offers a new upper strut bearing which is CNC machined and will cure any strut popping problems down the road. One major benefit is that there is +/- 1 degree of camber adjustment. This means that you can additional front suspension adjustability without the use of camber bolts of caster/camber plates. For custom alignment settings on road courses, caster camber plates should be used in tandem with this setup.
Springs
The purpose of lowering springs is to bring down the center of gravity of the car. Because the effective height of the spring is decreased, the spring rates (stiffness) are usually increased to keep the suspension from bottoming out. The obvious tradeoff to this
5th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,031
From: Babylon, NY
RE: Finally gonna do some suspension stuff.
yeah, but my front is already kinda low as is (with the roush front fascia and lip) and I'm not sure I wanna drop it any more.
Thread Starter
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 884
From: New York, New York
RE: Finally gonna do some suspension stuff.
yeah... but if I do all 4 I'm gonna want to do the D-specs... and you're gonna make me spend more cash!
I didn't think about that though... very good point... In that case I'll probably go with:
Steeda Ultralite Springs
D-specs
BMR adjustable panhard
BMR adjustable lca's
That'll be around a grand[&:]... Is this a good start?
I didn't think about that though... very good point... In that case I'll probably go with:
Steeda Ultralite Springs
D-specs
BMR adjustable panhard
BMR adjustable lca's
That'll be around a grand[&:]... Is this a good start?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18
From:
RE: Finally gonna do some suspension stuff.
I don't mean to hijack this thread but where can you purchase some new camber bolts? I just lowered my car with Eibachs, and the alignment place said i needed some new camber bolts. This is for a 06 mustang v6 if that makes any difference.
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