Which is faster? Auto or manual?
10-19-2009, 01:44 PM
#21
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Upstate
Posts: 783
F1 transmissions shift faster than a true manual, but to me, that takes the fun out of driving. Driving a manual is a pleasure, yes even in traffic and hills. You have ultimate control over your vehicle 100% of the time. I will never buy a car without 3 pedals. I know people that didn't buy the Nissan GTR because it didn't come in manual... if I had that money I wouldn't either. Even if you go on youtube and listen to an automatic transmission... IMO not nearly as savage as ripping shifts off in a manual. The only cars that sound good with F1 transmissions are from Ferrari and Lamborghini.. but even so, I'll take the 6spd please. There have been a million instances when I've been driving my SUV, especially on long road trips, that I wish I had a manual... obviously 95% of the time in a SUV or truck autos are just fine, but still, that's an instance where I really could have used a fast downshift for a pass.
Just my 2 cents =P
Just my 2 cents =P
10-19-2009, 01:49 PM
#22
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Montaner
Posts: 6,193
Less drivetrain loss as a general rule is still true with the manual. The difference is minimal. Probably on the order of a few percent.
Unless you power shift hard you will probably never match the automatic.
For drag racing the automatic is the way to go if that is the primary purpose for the car.
Unless you power shift hard you will probably never match the automatic.
For drag racing the automatic is the way to go if that is the primary purpose for the car.
10-19-2009, 01:51 PM
#23
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
stock for stock...a 5 speed is faster hands down off the line, and at the top end
the OEM torque converter and tuning makes the auto lose quite a bit of "oomph" off the start.
but once you are in 2nd gear or higher, it's all about the drivers.
in the mid gears, the auto has more advantage since you can keep your throttle planted and it takes care of the shifting. not many manual drivers can do the same while shifting...I've been trying for years and still can't do it.
in the upper end, the auto suffers. the torque converter and the tranny itself eat more HP than a stick does. so it takes more input from the crankshaft to achieve the same results a manual can get.
now, simple tuning of an auto...in terms of speed, that will put it on par with a stickshift. it can really firm up the shifts, and make things crisper and faster...which = faster.
adding a higher stall torque converter + 4.10 gears...and you'll have a automatic that many sticks would be hard pressed to keep up with.
and all of that is assuming you drive in "D" only. if you take your auto and run it up the gears, they respond even better. it's a facet of their programming. if you put it into 1st gear, the solenoids don't build up pressure for the shift into 2nd gear. this results in more power directed to the 1st gearset. just remember to pop it into 2nd gear about 500 RPM before the redline so enough pressure is developed to shift it prior to hitting the rev limiter.
all things being equal, I'd still take a stick shift again. I just get bored with an automatic. but I do see their appeal in horrible traffic. guess it just depends on how much & where you drive it
the OEM torque converter and tuning makes the auto lose quite a bit of "oomph" off the start.
but once you are in 2nd gear or higher, it's all about the drivers.
in the mid gears, the auto has more advantage since you can keep your throttle planted and it takes care of the shifting. not many manual drivers can do the same while shifting...I've been trying for years and still can't do it.
in the upper end, the auto suffers. the torque converter and the tranny itself eat more HP than a stick does. so it takes more input from the crankshaft to achieve the same results a manual can get.
now, simple tuning of an auto...in terms of speed, that will put it on par with a stickshift. it can really firm up the shifts, and make things crisper and faster...which = faster.
adding a higher stall torque converter + 4.10 gears...and you'll have a automatic that many sticks would be hard pressed to keep up with.
and all of that is assuming you drive in "D" only. if you take your auto and run it up the gears, they respond even better. it's a facet of their programming. if you put it into 1st gear, the solenoids don't build up pressure for the shift into 2nd gear. this results in more power directed to the 1st gearset. just remember to pop it into 2nd gear about 500 RPM before the redline so enough pressure is developed to shift it prior to hitting the rev limiter.
my 03 GT was an auto.
could do an anemic burnout in Drive, and the occasional 2nd gear scratch.
but place it into 1st, and that thing was a tire shredding monster. when I manually shifted to 2nd, it would lay it sideways.
I don't recommend you do this often though, it is harder on the transmission than just normal driving is
could do an anemic burnout in Drive, and the occasional 2nd gear scratch.
but place it into 1st, and that thing was a tire shredding monster. when I manually shifted to 2nd, it would lay it sideways.
I don't recommend you do this often though, it is harder on the transmission than just normal driving is
all things being equal, I'd still take a stick shift again. I just get bored with an automatic. but I do see their appeal in horrible traffic. guess it just depends on how much & where you drive it
I can do crazy burnouts in my auto in 'D' or '1st'. I just need to make sure TC is off
The one place where I miss the manual tranny these days is the twisties. Although here in AZ there's not much near where I'm at. I have to drive about an hour to the mountains in the east valley to get twisties. In CA just outside my door there were windy roads.
10-19-2009, 01:56 PM
#24
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Montaner
Posts: 6,193
The ultimate transmission is one that isn't yet available in the mustang.
A true dual clutch transmission with paddle shifters. That will destroy any automatic or true manual transmission out there right now.
Sadly, AFAIK, will not be an option on the 2011.
A true dual clutch transmission with paddle shifters. That will destroy any automatic or true manual transmission out there right now.
Sadly, AFAIK, will not be an option on the 2011.
10-19-2009, 02:08 PM
#27
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 2,211
Totally disagree with you about off-the-line. New stangs (s197) have 5 speed transmissions just like the manuals. The first gear in auto is shorter than the first gear in the manual so the oomph is just the same. That's why the newer stangs are identical in the 0-60 mph and maybe .1 slower and 1mph slower in trap speed (auto) vs previous generations where the Manual was just plain faster.
stock Auto's have a lag in 1st gear. It's just a function of the low RPM + stall converter.
hell, the 1st gear in my Expedition 6 speed is deeper than the granny gear in an old 4 speed F-350.
wish it could do a burnout...that would be pretty sweet
once out of 1st gear, the automatic then shows it's performance potential with the ability to shift quickly and keep 100% throttle.wish it could do a burnout...that would be pretty sweet
vs. a Manual which requires throttle release, and the shifting is slower
that is why the automatic & manual have the same trap time roughly.
the auto can quickly make-up the initial loss, and the stick has to slow down for the shifting. it all equals out
it all depends where you use it.
An automatic is hands down quicker when modified. no question about it. swapping in gears + a line lock + a higher stall = one quick damn car
but IMO, pure fun factor of a stick FTW. and not many people go through all the necessary mods to make an auto quick...cause it can get expensive
but IMO, pure fun factor of a stick FTW. and not many people go through all the necessary mods to make an auto quick...cause it can get expensive
10-19-2009, 02:19 PM
#29
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 368
10-19-2009, 02:54 PM
#30
4th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,249
It's the manuals race to lose. And..sadly, most do. Most try to launch too hard and end up spinning the tires and the race is over by the time I hit 2nd. I've only lost to 1 manual....and that was at the track where he had DR's. He totally out launched me, jumped a quick car length. I stayed on his bumper till the end.
Stock for stock, the manuals have the advantage due to their higher RPM launch capability.
Stock for stock, the manuals have the advantage due to their higher RPM launch capability.