Cam upgrade
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,404
From: Texas
hot rods sound good but there cams ford came up with what, like 4 years ago now? Then thumpers came out to give even more sound and about even power.... then almost nothing while they raked in the cash. Brenspeed said we want the best sound, best power, and perfect street manners, we have been tuning both these for 4 years, why not take what we learned off both, and have comp grind us the best cam that can be put on a stock valve train.
Welcome Detroit rockers.
For example, i have the Comp Stage 2 blower grind cams. They are a SICK cam, brenspeed made 70rwhp off them. And they sound REALLY good, not because they were made to sound good, but because they are actualy a cam desighned to operate one would expect with a lope like that:
make sure you listen towards the end when they idle down;-) Now keep in mind, i also needed phasers, springs, and steel retainers to be able to handle those. I tear through spark plugs pretty quick (at $100 a set) and I get some idle surging sometimes that can be a pain. That said, WOW, do these cams move.
Where am I going with this? Well my mom has almost identical mods to me. However we didnt want her to put up with any of the issues I do, and she wasnt concerned about the extra 30-50hp or so so i am making. So we went with the Detroit Rockers (F.I. version of coarse.) Her car sounds like this:
Her ride is very smooth, little to no surging, and no issues with burrning up plugs. In other words i not only belive brenspeed made a DAM good set of cams with those detroit rockers, but I highly recomend them over either the thumpers or the hot rods.
Welcome Detroit rockers.
For example, i have the Comp Stage 2 blower grind cams. They are a SICK cam, brenspeed made 70rwhp off them. And they sound REALLY good, not because they were made to sound good, but because they are actualy a cam desighned to operate one would expect with a lope like that:
make sure you listen towards the end when they idle down;-) Now keep in mind, i also needed phasers, springs, and steel retainers to be able to handle those. I tear through spark plugs pretty quick (at $100 a set) and I get some idle surging sometimes that can be a pain. That said, WOW, do these cams move.
Where am I going with this? Well my mom has almost identical mods to me. However we didnt want her to put up with any of the issues I do, and she wasnt concerned about the extra 30-50hp or so so i am making. So we went with the Detroit Rockers (F.I. version of coarse.) Her car sounds like this:
Her ride is very smooth, little to no surging, and no issues with burrning up plugs. In other words i not only belive brenspeed made a DAM good set of cams with those detroit rockers, but I highly recomend them over either the thumpers or the hot rods.
Have you thought about retuning so your engines do not drop below 1000 RPM at idle?
Also, what are the cam profile numbers of those cams you are using?
5th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,612
From: CT
I am using the 127550s.
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=983&sb=0
Hers is whatever brenspeed sends as a detroit rocker FI. From what i was told they are very close to the NA cams with slightly more lobe seperation angle.
Why in gods name would i not want to go below 1000-1200 rpm? lol.... You want them to idle down and sound beautiful. Most people set them as low as they can go without drivability issues. Both are set at 800. Mine with fresh spark plugs run perfect, and my moms just run perfect... lol.
The way you posed your question maybe I do need to elaborate though, we both do have custom tunes on our cars. Mine is what brenspeed sent me for the stage 3 (think they now sell it as a stage 4) saleen. Then had them modify for all the mods that can benifit from tune adjustments. Hers was dyno tunned at brenspeed before the cams. Then we put the cams in at her house and brenspeed used there dyno tune on file from her tunning session then used there canned changes and applied that to the custom tune for a near perfect tune with her setup + cams.
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=983&sb=0
Hers is whatever brenspeed sends as a detroit rocker FI. From what i was told they are very close to the NA cams with slightly more lobe seperation angle.
Why in gods name would i not want to go below 1000-1200 rpm? lol.... You want them to idle down and sound beautiful. Most people set them as low as they can go without drivability issues. Both are set at 800. Mine with fresh spark plugs run perfect, and my moms just run perfect... lol.
The way you posed your question maybe I do need to elaborate though, we both do have custom tunes on our cars. Mine is what brenspeed sent me for the stage 3 (think they now sell it as a stage 4) saleen. Then had them modify for all the mods that can benifit from tune adjustments. Hers was dyno tunned at brenspeed before the cams. Then we put the cams in at her house and brenspeed used there dyno tune on file from her tunning session then used there canned changes and applied that to the custom tune for a near perfect tune with her setup + cams.
Last edited by JDWalton; Sep 22, 2010 at 10:56 PM.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,404
From: Texas
Definitely a nice tune, because once you are stepping on the gas, the engine revs up to higher RPMs smoothly with absolutely no lop at all.
Nearly 0.560 in lift for both the intake and exhaust lobes? I'm surprised the 4.6L modular actually benefits with that much. Have you all done port work on your heads? have intahke and exhaust mods for more flow?
I could be making the wrong assumptions here because I do not know the diameters of the 4.6L valves for the 3v engines.
Also, do you know how aggressive the cam ramp openings and closings are?
As for the tune, I just thought of something: maybe the lop at below idle is purposefully tuned to do that to give the car a hot rod sound. Do you know if this assumption is correct? With ECU programming, you can literally make the engine do whatever you want, even for cosmetic reasons such as making the engine lop at idle.
Nearly 0.560 in lift for both the intake and exhaust lobes? I'm surprised the 4.6L modular actually benefits with that much. Have you all done port work on your heads? have intahke and exhaust mods for more flow?
I could be making the wrong assumptions here because I do not know the diameters of the 4.6L valves for the 3v engines.
Also, do you know how aggressive the cam ramp openings and closings are?
As for the tune, I just thought of something: maybe the lop at below idle is purposefully tuned to do that to give the car a hot rod sound. Do you know if this assumption is correct? With ECU programming, you can literally make the engine do whatever you want, even for cosmetic reasons such as making the engine lop at idle.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,612
From: CT
Its not the tune or below idle that is making that sound. The car usualy idles at around 850-900 with the setting at 800. It idles smooth, as in the RPM anyway. It sounds like that because it is cammed like that. When you get that much lift combined with a large LSA, when the car is at idle you are hearing each chamber fire, as well as some missfire as the ports are opening on some before combustion is complete. Thats why some cams loose low end torque to gain massive up top. Also why they recomend more gearing for more aggressive cams. The way you gain is that the motor uses that longer opening more as the motor spins faster, so when your at higher boost, flowing a ton of air, it actualy has a chance at getting all the exhaust fumes out of the block, and a lot more fresh air into the cylinder, so that it can actualy burn all that excess fuel its dumping in. More air + more fuel = bigger boom.
Also, you saw that lift, thats why I needed springs and retainers. And the LSA being as big as it is, is what makes me need cam phasers. They just wernt expecting the valves to be where they are in relation to the rotation of the cams. It can be tuned out (the ability for the computer to move the full 60 degrees,) but if you have a missfire or anything and the computer doesnt tell the phasers to compensate fast enough, say by by to your favorite set of valves.
Also they do recomend ported heads, though I have not done mine yet. I do have long tubes though, that also help clear the air out of there.
Also, you saw that lift, thats why I needed springs and retainers. And the LSA being as big as it is, is what makes me need cam phasers. They just wernt expecting the valves to be where they are in relation to the rotation of the cams. It can be tuned out (the ability for the computer to move the full 60 degrees,) but if you have a missfire or anything and the computer doesnt tell the phasers to compensate fast enough, say by by to your favorite set of valves.
Also they do recomend ported heads, though I have not done mine yet. I do have long tubes though, that also help clear the air out of there.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 334
From: Delaware
Here is another video of my car that has a different exhaust setup then im running now. You can hear the lope a little more in this video. Chris Rose has my idle set at 725 which is very impressive considering how drivable the car is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Iq9WuFQ3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Iq9WuFQ3U
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,404
From: Texas
Also, you saw that lift, thats why I needed springs and retainers. And the LSA being as big as it is, is what makes me need cam phasers. They just wernt expecting the valves to be where they are in relation to the rotation of the cams. It can be tuned out (the ability for the computer to move the full 60 degrees,) but if you have a missfire or anything and the computer doesnt tell the phasers to compensate fast enough, say by by to your favorite set of valves.
Of course, engineering a SOHC such that the intake and exhaust lobes could be independently phased would make the cam massively bulky and complex (more moving parts, and that is not including the phasers).
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 802
From: PA
I honestly think that our cam files are the best in the country. We've done a TON of work to make sure that idle control and daily driveability is left as close to factory as possible. I want the end user to feel like the car came with the cam installed from the factory. Branman, a few posts back has a sick sounding car, and I think it idles about as good as you'll EVER get... doesn't flare, drop down at a stop, etc. I didn't want to give his car back!
5th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,612
From: CT
hey seance your in here, think you guys can mail order tune my car? I was running a Bama tune before I got my supercharger and loved it, I dont know if you would support supercharger + 127550 comp cams. Maybe I can drive down to maryland and get a dyno tune? lol
