grabber blue gt

Yeah I mean as long as I can watch the air/fuel he said I would be fine, but if I wanted to I could hook it up to the datalogging. If the one from VMP is harder to install I definitely dont want it.

breathegood

Why is it a "must"? I'm not flamming, just asking you to justify your statement. I'm really curious because I find the digital wideband gauges to be the most aesthetically unappealing bit of flashing lights you can put in the cabin. The analogue style gauges may look better, but.....

Once the car is tuned, what is the point? I understand the need to have it for tuning purposes, but (assuming your PCM functions properly) I see no need to have it beyond that. Wouldn't any issue that could cause your AFR to do unpredictable things present itself in a diagnosable way that you wouldn't need a wideband for in the first place? In closed loop, it will read ~14.7 as long as there is any load. In open loop WOT, it will read whatever your car has been tuned to. I guess you could argue that it could help with minor tune adjustments for local conditions at the track, but I see little value in everyday driving. Hence my preference for a handheld/portable device.

808muscle

Think of it as insurance. Bad gas alone could cause you to go lean. The readings on a wibeband don't mean squat really until your WOT. I look at mine on every run at the track. Sure you can run without one but after spending all that cash on FI what's another $300. I make about 10 runs every month down the 1320, for me it's peace of mind. It certainly does way more than a boost gauge. Lol.

breathegood

Again, I'm asking you to quantify a subjective statement. How does it do more than a boost gauge? It measures a single stream of data in a very predictable way.

For track use, I understand, but "peace of mind" is a pretty thin arguement to purchase an expensive ornament for daily driving. Everybody says a wideband is a must have, but nobody will give a quantifyable reason why, other than "peace of mind". Peace of mind is reason to run any gauge. Why is a wideband different than say, tranny temp? Because a few good tuners started to use widebands to tune cars on the dyno or at the track ten years ago, everbody should just run one all the time? I think there are more usefull gauges to fill the space. I think a pyrometer is just as useful and more aesthetically pleasing, but it doesn't tell me any more or less than a wideband. A pyro combined with a wideband.....now that IS useful information.

Running lean is a symptom of another problem. If your tune is good, the root problem should pretty clearly present itself. I don't need a wideband to tell me I got a tank of bad gas, fouled spark plug, faulty injector, etc. If there is a problem such that the car is running lean enough for the motor to go boom, a wideband isn't going to give you enough warning to matter. It will just confirm that you saw it go lean before it went boom.

I'm not trying to bust anyone's chops on the issue. I see people say a wideband is a must have, but few really understand the usefullness of the information it provides. I've been running a wideband in my other car for five years now because everyone said I needed it. I did use it for tuning, but beyond that, it has served little purpose. Much like watching a boost gauge, there is little variation in the display, and it is predictable. I would like someone to actually give an account of a wideband being useful beyond tuning the vehicle.

The average daily driver doesn't "need" a wideband in their car because the information ISN'T any more useful to them than a boost gauge.

Sorry for the wordy post. I don't like being advised to buy expensive products without understanding why I "need" it, so it frustrates me that so many people would suggest that a wideband is a "needed" accessory to F/I when they can't come up with a better reason than "peace of mind".

mdg

To this day, I have no idea what those numbers on my Autometer Cobalt Wideband represent.

breathegood

I'm assuming that comment is tongue-in-cheek, but it does ring true for a lot drivers out there. Why do you have a wideband? Because every boost junkie with access to the internet says you need one of coarse!

Diabolical!

You need a wideband with F/I because s@&t happens. If you're running WOT and lose (for instance) a fuel pump in a dual pump setup, then your computer will not know that you are running dangerously lean until your motor goes BOOM. If, however, you are going WOT and happen to glance at your wideband and notice that it's spiking up to 15:1 or even higher, then you can quickly let off of the throttle before your pencil thin rods let go. There are literally dozens of small problems that can occur that could cause you to go lean while mashing the throttle. Keeping a vigilant eye on a wideband guage keeps those small problems from turning into catastrophes.

As for why a wideband is better than a boost guage, a boost guage is a vanity guage. All it's good for is letting you "see" how much boost you are making. I have both.

This is where you're wrong. Sure, if you don't pay attention to the guage, then there's no good reason to have it, but I know more than one driver who saved his motor by lifting when the wideband started flashing red at WOT.

mdg

yes, I was kidding...

808muscle

Breathgood, if you look at my first post my "must have" statement was followed by a IMO. Its just my opinion dude and I happen to agree with Diabolicals opinion. But some people probably dont need one. People whom just drive the car with without really getting into it much, no big deal. But I race my car, twice a month, I want to know whats going on.

grabber blue gt

I think before I take my headers off, I might have a bung welded in the stock exhaust. I was debating on just keeping the headers and putting in high flow cats, but I really dont like the idea after reading of cats blowing apart with blowers, and also the saying "nothing fits like stock".