Ford responds to the NHTSA investigation of manual transmissions
11-09-2011, 02:36 PM
#11
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,846
Whether 3% is acceptable, or not, is hardly the issue. 3% wouldn't warrant any type of recall, change in manufacturing, or transmission redesign. It looks like Ford has taken necessary steps to address individual issues, even to the extend of upgrades to certain components. Whether it's acceptable by your standards, or not, is subjective.
The rate of failure is actually less than 3% as some of the issues were deemed driver error and/or abuse.
The rate of failure is actually less than 3% as some of the issues were deemed driver error and/or abuse.
Those are the two fixes I've heard of on these transmissions. Not sure where you're thinking that they're upgrading customers for free lol. Also is this magical 3% recalculation of yours based in anything or is it a pulled out of *** stat? Even Ford doesn't factually know a percentage, since they're likely basing that statistic off of a sample far smaller than the actual population. Also have to remember that for every person who put power into a transmission that's junk, there's also another person not speaking up about their janky transmission.
To me at least, it's an ethics issue. They don't necessarily need to do a recall, but they should offer a better fix for those complaining than things that don't 100% solve a problem. Honestly, it's a stupid business move IMO because I know if I had a 2011/2012 with this issue and they weren't happy to fix it for me, I'd never buy another Ford again. I personally am really happy with my Mustang and overall with Ford, but an experience as an MT82 victim would probably change my story a whole hell of a lot.
Last edited by pdonket; 11-09-2011 at 02:38 PM.
11-09-2011, 04:16 PM
#12
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 879
Well I had to take my car in two weeks ago because of slight grinding into 5th gear, they had to replace the synchronizer in the transmission. I got it back and it works fine but now reverse is a little chippy, dosen't make any noise but it's harder to get into than before I took it in. This was obviously covered through warranty work but I seen the bill for it, it was $2100 dollars, I'd hate for that to happen out of warranty, I thought about getting a CAI and a tune but if something like that happen I don't know if they would cover it.....scary thought. I agree with not covering something that the mod caused but that synchronizer could have went bad anytime and had nothing to do with aftermarktet modifications, but I'm sure the dealer would have gave me the old, "well the extra 35 horsepower and 30 pounds of foot torque broke the transmission".
11-09-2011, 05:16 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,472
It's good to hear that Ford reviews the forums and listens to all our comments. These are real problems and people should communicate their issues with each other. There's nothing wrong with a group discussing problems and communicating to Ford in one voice! We like our Mustangs and want them to be built correctly/safely.
Sounds as though they fixed the problems, now we have to persuade Ford to install an American made tranny into the mustang!! How many Chinese are driving Mustangs these days?? none, so make it in Detroit!!
Sounds as though they fixed the problems, now we have to persuade Ford to install an American made tranny into the mustang!! How many Chinese are driving Mustangs these days?? none, so make it in Detroit!!
11-09-2011, 05:55 PM
#14
What they can estimate accurately is that 3% figure. FoMoCo knows exactly how many Mustang with Modular 5.0 & MT82 are out there by sales data and use that number to divide how many problems actually come in for dealership warranty claims.
The only issue I have with the reply from Ford is they that they didnt' go into much detail over the 5th gear issue (synchro gear). "Solution, It's been addressed (or something or other). Addressed how?? Also, Skip gear sucks, Vette (C6's) have it and they too complain of similiar issues.
1) Actually fix the problem completely or nearly completely. This should be the only way to call a problem "Addressed."
2) Address it like S***. I.e. lie, do nothing, sweep it under the rug, issue half-*** fixes.
I hate it when people say something has been addressed, yet the problem has not actually been fixed. I see it all the time, and Ford is not the only violator. Look at GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Hyundai, etc. They are just as guilty of addressing a problem yet doing nothing to properly fix a problem.
I find it a bit amusing how people that don't even own the car (or own one and don't have any issues) are all up-in-arms over it. If it doesn't affect you directly stop beating a dead horse. Sell your Mustang (and other Ford models) and go buy a Jap car. Oh wait, Toyota had ANOTHER recall. This time with steering issues on 500,000+ cars...
This kind of sacrifice is what allowed Ford to leap over Toyota in quality. But I hate to say that Ford's decision to cheap-out is hitting that hard-earned quality start they used to hold. And worse, the cheaper parts they put into our cars do not translate into lower prices. They instead jacked up the price of the base 2011-12 GTs with manuals to $29K-30K per and the larger profit margins go to who knows where (most likely CEO pockets, that makes the most sense to me).
11-09-2011, 06:01 PM
#15
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
I'm having a hard time making relevance to this post, its alot like reading braile...that is you can only understand it if your blind.
Are you accusing me of trolling? if thats the case its punishable by death.
I'm not looking for any publicity at all, I for one have been one of the members telling people that have been blowing this situation out of proportion to lay low about it until they start having problems. People have been freaking out for the longest time saying things like "FORD SUCKS ELL OH ELL" and frankly im tired of hearing about it. Then you got the people that have modded their cars well beyond the limits then blame ford when **** breaks and say they designed a poor transmission in the first place.
Taking into account that I own an MT82 car, and you do not I think that I can contribute more to this thread then you can, judging from your sig your 08 didn't come equipped with an MT82 6 speed transmission, so there really is no need for you to be starting flame wars in tech threads about it.
*edit* you have a quote from lost boys in your sig, need I say more?
Are you accusing me of trolling? if thats the case its punishable by death.
I'm not looking for any publicity at all, I for one have been one of the members telling people that have been blowing this situation out of proportion to lay low about it until they start having problems. People have been freaking out for the longest time saying things like "FORD SUCKS ELL OH ELL" and frankly im tired of hearing about it. Then you got the people that have modded their cars well beyond the limits then blame ford when **** breaks and say they designed a poor transmission in the first place.
Taking into account that I own an MT82 car, and you do not I think that I can contribute more to this thread then you can, judging from your sig your 08 didn't come equipped with an MT82 6 speed transmission, so there really is no need for you to be starting flame wars in tech threads about it.
*edit* you have a quote from lost boys in your sig, need I say more?
11-09-2011, 06:17 PM
#16
The Paranoid One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
It's good to hear that Ford reviews the forums and listens to all our comments. These are real problems and people should communicate their issues with each other. There's nothing wrong with a group discussing problems and communicating to Ford in one voice! We like our Mustangs and want them to be built correctly/safely.
Sounds as though they fixed the problems, now we have to persuade Ford to install an American made tranny into the mustang!! How many Chinese are driving Mustangs these days?? none, so make it in Detroit!!
Sounds as though they fixed the problems, now we have to persuade Ford to install an American made tranny into the mustang!! How many Chinese are driving Mustangs these days?? none, so make it in Detroit!!
Odds are they got more input from customers bringing in their cars but I hope they also brought it to their attention that their were complaints on the forums!
11-09-2011, 07:19 PM
#17
[/B]
I agree, at first I was skeptical because I didnt think as many people were having problems. Seemed at first like everyone was blowing everything out of proportion, but then when I seen that 500+ page on the other forums full of people having issues I find it hard to believe that 3% is an accurate number.
...
I agree, at first I was skeptical because I didnt think as many people were having problems. Seemed at first like everyone was blowing everything out of proportion, but then when I seen that 500+ page on the other forums full of people having issues I find it hard to believe that 3% is an accurate number.
...
11-09-2011, 08:03 PM
#18
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,397
they never say what this bit is about
i have a feeling they are talking about the early 11 cars, when the issue is still clearly happening. multiple boss 302 owners have had the same issue as i on the track with the 3-4 shift and the pedal not coming off the floor. they don't mention a TSB so i can only assume that is what they are talking about.
Clutch Stayout Problems:
Approximately 24 percent of the reports refer to an issue identified by Ford as “clutch stayout” where the rotating inertia of the clutch components can be higher than the spring force provided by the clutch pedal return spring when gears are shifted at engine speeds greater than approximately 4,000 rpm. Under these conditions the clutch will reengage when engine rpm is reduced to a speed where the clutch pedal return spring overcomes the rotating inertia of the clutch components. This condition does not prevent selection of any gear.
Solution:
An investigation into the root cause of these reports identified that variability in the spring forces in the population of clutch pedal return springs allowed some springs to be below the expected force values and allow the condition to occur. Replacement clutch pedal parts were made available and a revised spring design has been implemented.
Approximately 24 percent of the reports refer to an issue identified by Ford as “clutch stayout” where the rotating inertia of the clutch components can be higher than the spring force provided by the clutch pedal return spring when gears are shifted at engine speeds greater than approximately 4,000 rpm. Under these conditions the clutch will reengage when engine rpm is reduced to a speed where the clutch pedal return spring overcomes the rotating inertia of the clutch components. This condition does not prevent selection of any gear.
Solution:
An investigation into the root cause of these reports identified that variability in the spring forces in the population of clutch pedal return springs allowed some springs to be below the expected force values and allow the condition to occur. Replacement clutch pedal parts were made available and a revised spring design has been implemented.
11-09-2011, 09:37 PM
#19
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,472
Well I had to take my car in two weeks ago because of slight grinding into 5th gear, they had to replace the synchronizer in the transmission. I got it back and it works fine but now reverse is a little chippy, dosen't make any noise but it's harder to get into than before I took it in. This was obviously covered through warranty work but I seen the bill for it, it was $2100 dollars, I'd hate for that to happen out of warranty, I thought about getting a CAI and a tune but if something like that happen I don't know if they would cover it.....scary thought. I agree with not covering something that the mod caused but that synchronizer could have went bad anytime and had nothing to do with aftermarktet modifications, but I'm sure the dealer would have gave me the old, "well the extra 35 horsepower and 30 pounds of foot torque broke the transmission".
I'm on my fifth mustang in 20 years and all were modded and ford never gave me trouble when I brought it in for a tranny or rearend issues. Has anyone heard of anyone not having their warranty honored by Ford due to a mod? It would be interesting to hear about warranties being voided?
Last edited by daredevil95; 11-09-2011 at 10:02 PM.
11-09-2011, 09:51 PM
#20
The first thing that attracted me to Ford is they were the only extremely large volume production output car company to employ better technologies in V8 engines. Overhead cams, even DOHC, 4v per cylinder, now available in the GT, and cam phasing (TiVCT) are the selling points to me that made me want one. GM and Chrysler is still wallering in dinosaur pushrods. And if anyone says that pushrods still are king, look at the comparison: The 5.0L Coyote is getting 412 BHP crank while the Chevy Camaro SS gets 425 BHP crank but then need 1.2 liters more to do it!
And the Boss 302 Roadrunner even surpasses the 6.2L with 444 BHP crank! The valvetrain technology alone allows better fuel management and throws more area under the torque curve in such a manner that counts: a broad torque curve throughout most of the RPM bandwidth.
I can go on and on how I really admire Ford for being willing to take up more state of the art technology to push for big block-like power from a 5.0L small block, but I do have ill feelings too about customer service, such as that damn TSB that is anti-modding when it comes to #8 piston failure and many other issues as well.
But I do have to say my ill feelings is not focused only at Ford, my ill feelings are focused on the entire automotive industry as a whole.
What some of us call "sweeping under the rug" with half-*** fixes, this is not just Ford doing it, but all the other car makers too, some companies more than others.
All I can say is I bet you will find such similar half-*** fixes from Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, etc.
And this practice by ALL car makers is what upsets me.