2005 GT DYNO RUN
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Joined: Nov 2005
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RE: 2005 GT DYNO RUN
ORIGINAL: airfoil
I’m going to have to look at the brands I’m not sure but their both from the same company. I will post when I get a chance to look.
Since most of you know I’m a aeronautical engineer which means designing and solving problems is what I like to do. The only real problem I have now is fords fly by wire for the throttle body.
This is what I’m working on. It’s a simple design a transmitter feeding a pulse signal to a motor with a potentiometer to control the position. It works great until it gets boost then the motor is not strong enough and will flutter which will throw the car into safe mode on the ECU. So I now have a good motor and have a machine shop milling the plate to mount to the throttle body. On the bench the stock motor put out 425in. oz of torque to the shaft and the motor I have put out 1600in oz torque to the shaft. One thing I did have to change it the fuse I went to a 20 amp so it wouldn’t blow. Should have the part on the car next week and if all goes well will tell you what to by and where and post a copy of my CNC drawings so you can make one yourself. Another thing on the pulse singnal I found if you make a small circuit and double it the delay you see goes away. All it amounts to it doubling the electric motors input signal by 2.
On the rod question and HP I really don’t know. I have also read and heard of guys making 500 plus on the stock setup but what I’m posting is what happened to me. 400 –430 and two rods failed. I’m also told and believe the block will only take 600 then crack.
This is RWHP from an auto so its flywheel would be close to 700hp if it was making 600rwhp. For what its worth.
The Procharger question is you only start with close to 260-270hp to the wheels so it would take at least 16lbs of boost 55lb injectors 255 fuel pump and boost a pump and then open up the exhaust all the way back to break 400hp IMHO. I know Vortech and Procharger advertise 400-450 but on the dyno its all BS. Vortech told me when we were building the engine and hit 450 rwhp and I was disappointed that that was one of the highest they had ever heard of. Personally I think it would take $6,000.00 minimum and then hope a rod doesn't look like the one pictured. I would build the car from the bottom up to make sure you don't explode.
Hope some of this helps.
John
I’m going to have to look at the brands I’m not sure but their both from the same company. I will post when I get a chance to look.
Since most of you know I’m a aeronautical engineer which means designing and solving problems is what I like to do. The only real problem I have now is fords fly by wire for the throttle body.
This is what I’m working on. It’s a simple design a transmitter feeding a pulse signal to a motor with a potentiometer to control the position. It works great until it gets boost then the motor is not strong enough and will flutter which will throw the car into safe mode on the ECU. So I now have a good motor and have a machine shop milling the plate to mount to the throttle body. On the bench the stock motor put out 425in. oz of torque to the shaft and the motor I have put out 1600in oz torque to the shaft. One thing I did have to change it the fuse I went to a 20 amp so it wouldn’t blow. Should have the part on the car next week and if all goes well will tell you what to by and where and post a copy of my CNC drawings so you can make one yourself. Another thing on the pulse singnal I found if you make a small circuit and double it the delay you see goes away. All it amounts to it doubling the electric motors input signal by 2.
On the rod question and HP I really don’t know. I have also read and heard of guys making 500 plus on the stock setup but what I’m posting is what happened to me. 400 –430 and two rods failed. I’m also told and believe the block will only take 600 then crack.
This is RWHP from an auto so its flywheel would be close to 700hp if it was making 600rwhp. For what its worth.
The Procharger question is you only start with close to 260-270hp to the wheels so it would take at least 16lbs of boost 55lb injectors 255 fuel pump and boost a pump and then open up the exhaust all the way back to break 400hp IMHO. I know Vortech and Procharger advertise 400-450 but on the dyno its all BS. Vortech told me when we were building the engine and hit 450 rwhp and I was disappointed that that was one of the highest they had ever heard of. Personally I think it would take $6,000.00 minimum and then hope a rod doesn't look like the one pictured. I would build the car from the bottom up to make sure you don't explode.
Hope some of this helps.
John
4th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,370
From: bay area
RE: 2005 GT DYNO RUN
I have to agree with chevykiller on the 400 being the limit.. but you do prove a point that ANYTHING can happen.. there are allot of varables that go into reaching higher numbers.. and all it takes is 1 thing to be wrong and boom. A friend sent me a link to a guy running 650rwhp on a stock 2v !!! .. So many things to try, but no perfect asnwsers 
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2...tml#post438137
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2...tml#post438137
4th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,370
From: bay area
RE: 2005 GT DYNO RUN
you think thats impressive.. you should see this................I'm a goof ball
Click here to watch MOV01377
Click here to watch MOV013752391
Click here to watch MOV01377
Click here to watch MOV013752391
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,585
From:
RE: 2005 GT DYNO RUN
Hey Soul - great point you made. I happen to know the owner of that car personally and let me tell you it has blown the motor more times than I can count. The owner is actually the guy who designed KB's s/c for our cars. That car has a sh@t load of timing and when it runs, it's a low 10 sec car but he has rebuilt that motor A LOT of times. I was just saying that unless you got a manufacturer defect or a shop using your car for their own personal test case (which I think is the case here) or a custom tune the car just hates - then you should not blow a rod with 400 hp.
Airfoil and his shop put A LOT of R&D time into that car (and I give them props for it) and they were playing with builds that haven't been established yet which is always a recipe for destruction. The fact is when you are building a mock up from scratch, you HAVE TO BREAK SOMETHING to find where your weak link is. I would bet the farm he didn't blow that rod using a modified sct or predator tune from his supplied kit (which is what every custom tuner does - they establish a custom tune from the base settings of the established tunes) No, they were testing and trial and error building to get his car right. That's great and I think it's awesome but it is not what average joe is going to get when he goes to his tuner and wants a s/c to put him at 400+ to the ground.
Apples and oranges is all I'm saying.... LOL
Airfoil and his shop put A LOT of R&D time into that car (and I give them props for it) and they were playing with builds that haven't been established yet which is always a recipe for destruction. The fact is when you are building a mock up from scratch, you HAVE TO BREAK SOMETHING to find where your weak link is. I would bet the farm he didn't blow that rod using a modified sct or predator tune from his supplied kit (which is what every custom tuner does - they establish a custom tune from the base settings of the established tunes) No, they were testing and trial and error building to get his car right. That's great and I think it's awesome but it is not what average joe is going to get when he goes to his tuner and wants a s/c to put him at 400+ to the ground.
Apples and oranges is all I'm saying.... LOL
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 453
From: Bellflower, CA
RE: 2005 GT DYNO RUN
you guys are very helpfull ............... thanks for all the info....lostsoul, what kind of gauges do you have..........where can i get them?????????
by the way chevykiller I talk to adam from ST motorsports to order a KB supercharger last week... do you have any new info on his numbers at the track............
[IMG]local://upfiles/27123/CB3BF39FE8E74EDE83E5DCFD383BC546.jpg[/IMG]
by the way chevykiller I talk to adam from ST motorsports to order a KB supercharger last week... do you have any new info on his numbers at the track............
[IMG]local://upfiles/27123/CB3BF39FE8E74EDE83E5DCFD383BC546.jpg[/IMG]
Thread Starter
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 49
RE: 2005 GT DYNO RUN
Yes you are correct the car has had a several custom tunes but we tried to stay on the safe side at all times. I found this personally just bolt on a complete Vortech kit and nothing else and use the tune in the Diablo. You will find on a Dyno the car is all over the scale and the biggest problem will be the plugs gapped at 65.
Now I just did this then dynoed at 342rwhp with an auto in 4th gear. So they cut and gapped the plugs and started building a custom tune. The car then went up to 375-385rwhp. at 10lbs. of boost. We then went to the 10 ribbed pulley kit which was a smaller drive pulley and got 14lbs of boost at about 420rwhp. Bent a rod on the second run. Rebuilt and then had the blower lose a bearing on the next dyno run a couple weeks later which Vortech covered. So at this point we have a custom tune a little rich and 14lbs of boost the 10 ribbed belt kit which was eating belts as I explained what you need to do to fix that before and stock bottom end. We did another dyno run and at about 430rwhp broke a rod and destoyed the block and crank.
This was the Vortech kit with inner cooler. These are real numbers. So we back up and decide build the car from the bottom up. Built it as a stoker and forged and if you send in your S trim blower for $1325.00 they will upgrade to a T trim. Then I went to Ford racing heads and a prototype intake and the 62mm throttle body. We installed the Ford racing headers Xpipe and Magaflow muffler so it had little or no back pressure. Now set up the custom tune and it was a bummer the first run was 455rwhp I was bummed but that was on 10lbs of boost by opening everything up we needed a smaller pulley to get the boost back up to where it needed to be even with a T trim. Changed that out and we were up over 500 now but low on fuel pressure and they thought it maybe blowing out the spark again so we added a boost a fuel and boost a spark. Now we broke the 600rwhp made with an auto and under 6200rpm so the setup is very close.
Me personally if you think you can break 400rwhp with an auto by just installing a Vortech complete kit call them first. They will tell you 355-365 is very common. The techs are honest.
I'm not saying some arn't doing it I'm just telling what we have done in the real world to get to this point.
ChevyKiller me and you need to team up. I have seen numbers all over the board to but out of 4 Mustangs not one broke 400hp on the dyno with just the Vortech kit and we were all pissed. Most are now doing the same specs. as I did except stoking and forging the motor. Their gonna be real sorry soon. I hope not but they will be.
Thanks
John
Now I just did this then dynoed at 342rwhp with an auto in 4th gear. So they cut and gapped the plugs and started building a custom tune. The car then went up to 375-385rwhp. at 10lbs. of boost. We then went to the 10 ribbed pulley kit which was a smaller drive pulley and got 14lbs of boost at about 420rwhp. Bent a rod on the second run. Rebuilt and then had the blower lose a bearing on the next dyno run a couple weeks later which Vortech covered. So at this point we have a custom tune a little rich and 14lbs of boost the 10 ribbed belt kit which was eating belts as I explained what you need to do to fix that before and stock bottom end. We did another dyno run and at about 430rwhp broke a rod and destoyed the block and crank.
This was the Vortech kit with inner cooler. These are real numbers. So we back up and decide build the car from the bottom up. Built it as a stoker and forged and if you send in your S trim blower for $1325.00 they will upgrade to a T trim. Then I went to Ford racing heads and a prototype intake and the 62mm throttle body. We installed the Ford racing headers Xpipe and Magaflow muffler so it had little or no back pressure. Now set up the custom tune and it was a bummer the first run was 455rwhp I was bummed but that was on 10lbs of boost by opening everything up we needed a smaller pulley to get the boost back up to where it needed to be even with a T trim. Changed that out and we were up over 500 now but low on fuel pressure and they thought it maybe blowing out the spark again so we added a boost a fuel and boost a spark. Now we broke the 600rwhp made with an auto and under 6200rpm so the setup is very close.
Me personally if you think you can break 400rwhp with an auto by just installing a Vortech complete kit call them first. They will tell you 355-365 is very common. The techs are honest.
I'm not saying some arn't doing it I'm just telling what we have done in the real world to get to this point.
ChevyKiller me and you need to team up. I have seen numbers all over the board to but out of 4 Mustangs not one broke 400hp on the dyno with just the Vortech kit and we were all pissed. Most are now doing the same specs. as I did except stoking and forging the motor. Their gonna be real sorry soon. I hope not but they will be.
Thanks
John
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From:
RE: 2005 GT DYNO RUN
John, that was a lot more pertinent information. I actaully am now not surprised at all that you blew the rod at 430 cause I was under the impression that you did it on the h/o kit (i.e. 3.61 pulley with 6 rib belt) Everything makes a lot more sense now cause I also was shocked at what the vortech and engine do when you start upgrading pulleys and belts. When I put the 3.33 pulley on the car, vortech wanted me to go to the 8 rib system and I talked with a guy who had the system with the t-trim set-up and he made less power at first too when he switched and blew his motor when he jumped to 480 rwhp. When I called vortech, they exlained the upgraded belts and pulleys with the T-trim actually put more stress on the motor than they should because of the fuel issues. They went as far as to say not to pulley and belt up without using fuel rails, 60 lbs. injectors, VP 110 & boost- a-pump at a bare minimum and reccomended a rebuild. The stroker is also dissapointing cause you actually do lose hp when you try to up your boost.
I don't know if you've read other of my posts, but I was having a b@tch of time getting the 3.33 pulley to work cause I was all over the place and had massive issues with the belt. We ended up using 2 stock tension pulleys to be able to tighten down the 6 rib belt and it's holding fine but I am maxed out. I know if I go 20 hp more (even when I solve the fuel issue) I'm going to get belt slippage on the 6 rib for sure.
LOL - you hit the nail on the head when you said they'll be sorry. I don't think too many people realize how much work is involved when getting these cars up into another class they weren't designed initially for. I really appreciate your posts and was never trying to discredit you, I simply was trying to point out what the average joe is going to deal with because most owners of these cars are never going to see over 400 hp. And to be honest and fare to all, when I installed my vortech h/o kit and supplied predator tune, the BEST I could get was 390 rwhp and the car was all over the place on the charts. Bought and gapped the autolite cold plugs and they made a big difference and then went from there.
PS - Note about vortech's comment about the gas???? They said anything over 10 psi on boost and you have to run VP109 or higher (all the time) or your playing with fire internally. I trust when you blew the rod, you were on VP 109 + and you had already removed your cats to prevent frying your downstream 02's????? If you were on pump gas when you pulley'd and belted up, that would also be a dead ringer for the piston going. I use a conservative tune with 1/2 VP110 - 1/2 pump gas that is around 460 hp and I use C16 when using my race tune.
I don't know if you've read other of my posts, but I was having a b@tch of time getting the 3.33 pulley to work cause I was all over the place and had massive issues with the belt. We ended up using 2 stock tension pulleys to be able to tighten down the 6 rib belt and it's holding fine but I am maxed out. I know if I go 20 hp more (even when I solve the fuel issue) I'm going to get belt slippage on the 6 rib for sure.
LOL - you hit the nail on the head when you said they'll be sorry. I don't think too many people realize how much work is involved when getting these cars up into another class they weren't designed initially for. I really appreciate your posts and was never trying to discredit you, I simply was trying to point out what the average joe is going to deal with because most owners of these cars are never going to see over 400 hp. And to be honest and fare to all, when I installed my vortech h/o kit and supplied predator tune, the BEST I could get was 390 rwhp and the car was all over the place on the charts. Bought and gapped the autolite cold plugs and they made a big difference and then went from there.
PS - Note about vortech's comment about the gas???? They said anything over 10 psi on boost and you have to run VP109 or higher (all the time) or your playing with fire internally. I trust when you blew the rod, you were on VP 109 + and you had already removed your cats to prevent frying your downstream 02's????? If you were on pump gas when you pulley'd and belted up, that would also be a dead ringer for the piston going. I use a conservative tune with 1/2 VP110 - 1/2 pump gas that is around 460 hp and I use C16 when using my race tune.