Okay, we have all heard of guys blowing their engines at 400 hp and other guys handling 560 on the stock bottom end so what's the deal? First of all, these engines are unique and I have seen different cars take different loads. Another big factor is your tune , your equipment, and your gas. When anyone is venturing into and beyond the 400 HP mark, having a custom tuner who knows what he's doing is essential. I'm not talking about a guy who can run a dyno and install a bolt-on - I'm talking about guys who are in the scene and communicate on a regular basis with all the other R&D shops out there and the mod manufacturers. I am lucky enough to have a guy who the manufacturers call when they have a problem.

He's not the only one, but these guys are few and far between and they all know each other. Unless you can get one of these guys to help you with your car, it is not wise to start doubling and beyond the power these cars came with. I give advice and opinions when asked but I want to make sure everyone knows where I stand when it comes to serious power gains. My family is famed hot rods and NHRA dragster builders. We own some of the fastests street rods in the country and my family DOES NOT work on my mustang. Apples and oranges - if I was building a 66 nova or 55 chevy, heck I could get our engine builder (Norm Grimes) to make it as fast as I want to spend. But with this car, I sought out a professional who specializes in THESE cars. A lot of people forget about the tuning factor and the computer and it is the single most important element when modifying these cars. Now for equipment - there are lots of different mods and what people don't seem to realize is that you have to custom tune EVERY TIME you change something on your car. There is also the factor of how the mods perform when combined with other mods. This is a serious mistake many people make. They buy what they think is the best of each mod without researching how well the mods work together - they only look at the individual power gains from each mod and then just guess that you can add the two HP numbers together - doesn't work that way. Shops like St Motorsports, JPC racing, MRI, Brenspeed, etc. etc. have all gone throught the R&D phases of mod combination and you most all of the shops will gladly give you info if you talk to them. Don't be afraid to call several shops to get comparison opinions either and don't just ask what worked, but ask what DIDN'T work and why??

Lastly is gas - although gas alone is not going to save your engine, it is essential that you 'pad the cushion' so to speak. The more HP I make on this 3V, the higher the octane I run. On my 521 rwhp race tune, I run C16 (114 octane) and my daily driver tune (460 rwhp) even gets VP110 mixed with premium gas for a 94-95 octane. A lot of guys don't remove their cats when making big power jumps and then have to run on much lower octane which makes for a recipe for destruction when they start pushing that motor. Even when my race tune was 481 rwhp - I ran straight VP110 when I used the tune. Also ounderstand that there is ALWAYS a risk and be prepared for that risk when making your decisions. I have said before and I'll say it again - I am building a new engine and if I wasn't - I would not even be at the HP I am now. I would not be pushing the stock bottom end so hard if it was all I had in the dugout.

Hopes this helps soem of you.

 

Great post, very informative! I think this will help alot of people who are quick to get the high hp numbers out of the motor.

 

very nice killer, i think thats whats happens here a lot. people think because so an so did this me or my shop should be able to do this and thats not always the case. different levels of knowledge, skills, etc...

what did you find out about that water/meth issue, if anything?? i'm not going to levels that will require that but its interesting if thats true

 

Awesome post! I appreciate reading the technical stuff this forum offers.

 

the problems with the 3 valve engine at high HP are that they moved the landing ring so close to the top of the piston and the sh1tty pressed rods are both prone to breakage.

Those are two SERIOUS weaknesses that no tune can overcome. You might get lucky for awhile but the bottom line is that if you want a reliable engine AND high HP, you are going to need to address those issues.

 

I couldn't agree more! With you guys. I think there's two ways to go. In reality you're stock motor makes about 260wrhp not the 300 they advertise. So you can buy a Votech complete system and program the car with the tuner included and be at about 350rwhp not 450 as advertised but 350 real HP is nothing to look down on. To do this the only other thing you must do is cut and regap the plugs at 32.

Once you shoot for 400 plus rwhp. Well this is a stock rod! You need IMHO a Forged bottom end crank/rods and pistons with a bridle on the block. Then the number 2 thing you need is fuel. It has to be a dedicated system. You can run a Boost a fuel or piggy back two 255 like Votech/Paxton do. Now remember the fuel line is 3/8 to the tank so you will need to replace it with 1/2 line, I use CMR fuel rails and 60lb. injectors. Now with 13-14lbs of boost on a stroker which I am .020 over you will see a real 550-600wrhp engine but you have spent some cash.

So you have to decide do I want a hot rod that out runs most all other GT's or a machine that out runs most everything? If its the latter expect to spend $12,000 -$15,000 to hit the 500rwhp mark.

Stock rod at 400HP!


A True 575-600HP Mustang. Stroked /Blower pistons/ Forged / Balanced/ T trim blower with 8 ribbed belt kit/ 255 with boost a fuel and spark 1/2" line/ Ford racing ported heads and intake with a 62mm throttle body and boost injection into the intercooler not NOS.



John

 

Thanks for the additions guys and you are right on! Hopes this helps/saves guys from trying to get big gains without spending the neccessary loot and doing the right set-ups.

Airfoil - yeah, I switched to the 1/2 line well with 60 lbs injectors on new fuel rails and we reconverted it to a dual return system.

M - the water/meth isue you asked me about was a matter of the tune. Methonal is actually a really great power inducer and if tuned correctly can be fairly safe. When used, the a/f goes crazy and is all over the place and you have to have a custom tune specifically for the meth. (the same for any super-coooler set-up) If not tuned properly, you will blow very easily. It can be great, but should only be installed/tuned by someone very familiar with it.

If it was not for my computer saving me - I would have blown my car last night...

I made a big boo boo last night and was running late to Perris drags and when I was heading out, I still had 3/4 of a tank of pump gas. Instead of taking the time to just unplug the nitrous injection on fuel rail and turn the motor on to drain the gas, I figured I'd save time and just added a couple gallons of C-16 (118 octane) to the tank to try to 'balance out' the pump gas. BIG MISTAKE. When I got to the track and switched to the race tune, the car was missing all over the place and I ran like crap. The car just bogged out at 4000 rpm and above and wouldn't make any boost. I'm thinking the computer was sensing the detonation and retarding the timing for me. Although I ran like crap and was a little embarrassed, it probably saved me some serious problems. This is why I am supposed to run my race tune on straight race gas.

 

So, just some advice.....since I'm the only one in my area about to mod his new GT (and the nearest performance shop is nearly 3 hours away)......I am planning on coupling a Saleen SC with a Steeda CAI. My guess is that i will be pretty close to 400rwhp, maybe a wee bit below. I'm not looking to build a monster here, just a decently modded, slightly faster car. I don't intend to race it on the track either. So, question is......should i upgrade the bottom end on this car anyway? Or is this setup (under street driving conditions) relatively safe to run with until such time i can upgrade the stock internals on the engine?
I've been told by the Saleen ppl and ppl on the Ford Racing site that this setup will not compromise the stock engine. But i don't wanna risk blowing my engine either. Better safe than sorry, i know.....but if i really don't have anything to worry about, i'm not gonna go thru the trouble just yet. BTW, its not that i can't afford to upgrade the engine, i just don't have anyone that can pull the motor out (that i'd trust doing it) and i don't have the equipment or knowhow to do it myself.

 

IMHO an that's what it is I don't race I just like to play a little. I bent the rod pictured at a little over 400rwhp and broke a crank/block and rod at about 430rwhp. I would say be carefull. One other thing if you're pro shop is 3 hours away I hope you are a pilot. Mine is 2 hours away and have flown in there at least 12 times. Cool thing about heli's you can land next to the shop and check out the car and waste no time.

I would find a proven system and stay under 400rwhp. Keep in mind my car is an auto if that helps.

Chevykiller seems to know his stuff I would listen to him. A lot on here is just a dream they had the night before and not actual experience. I'm not bashing I have just seen HP numbers I know are a dream. I fly for the drug task force here so they might be on meth when their posting, hell 1/2 the country is. Sorry back to the subject.

John

 

Well, its all a done deal for me now. The Saleen Series VI is on a truck right now.....so I gotta make it work. I'm gonna try and see if any of the motor-modder guys I work with might be able to assist me in pulling the engine out for an overhaul of the internals. To be honest, I had considered doing this before the SC, just to ensure longevity under the increased HP numbers....but I had decided to push back doing so until I had a means of pulling the engine out. But it looks like if thats what I gotta do, that's what I'm gonna do. Starting a new link now.....