Here's the plan (Project 5.4)
6th Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,575
From: United States
RE: Here's the plan (Project 5.4)
I'm not really convinced your even going to get that much of a better powerband with the 5.4L either, espcially with a centri setup (as in the pic in your sig).
Its all great in theory, but from what I have seen it just doesn't happen. Its like the stroker kits for the 4.6Ls... they should be adding down low TQ and improving the power band... but it just doesn't happen.
GL, and I hope it all works out, but there has to be a reason why its not a very popular mod... and its not because it works great, has no downsides, and is easy to do...
So far as his 4v comment, I think they are refering to a N/A setup. The 2v heads simply limit the power production maximum n/a, not the shortblock setup. They just don't flow that well, even with really heavy porting.
Its all great in theory, but from what I have seen it just doesn't happen. Its like the stroker kits for the 4.6Ls... they should be adding down low TQ and improving the power band... but it just doesn't happen.
GL, and I hope it all works out, but there has to be a reason why its not a very popular mod... and its not because it works great, has no downsides, and is easy to do...
So far as his 4v comment, I think they are refering to a N/A setup. The 2v heads simply limit the power production maximum n/a, not the shortblock setup. They just don't flow that well, even with really heavy porting.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2
RE: Here's the plan (Project 5.4)
So being the personal fabricator/welder of amoosenamedhanks car. Most people dont do this swap because they dont have the know how to make a set of headers or figure out other small issues. ie: intake manifold, timing cover, pulleys, the rest of the exhaust, swapping out truck cams for a set that will actually make power, the list is endless. Its not always going to be easy or cheaper to do something different. But its DIFFERENT.
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 850
From:
RE: Here's the plan (Project 5.4)
hey im just giving my own persone opnion on something that i have made a mistake on, yea with a S/C it will be much better then a NA one. mine does have the stock Forged crank, and a 5.4 is only 25lbs more then a 4.6 so to the origional poster you will not need to do anything to your suspension. i am going back to the 4.6 2v with a blower then after them motor blows i amd building a 4V forged one
5th Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,412
From: MN
RE: Here's the plan (Project 5.4)
Ok well I'm going to personally seperate myself from this discussion and lets just talk N/A. I agree with you, the 2v is restrictive and you're not going to see crazy power gains like you would on a push-rod but..... Like I said before it's not all about peak horse power. That's what no one seems to get. Even if you only made 5-10 more peak horse and10-20 more torque it would still be worth it because you would be making so much more power at 3k rpm's.
No offense to darkhorse but as I remember it his set-up was a stock 5.4, with a stock truck intake, and stock pi heads and cams. Of course your not going to make crazy numbers with that set up. I am personally really interested to see what this ben guy's car is going to do with the upgrade in heads and cams. I'm not saying it's going to be a beast but let's just see some numbers first.
P.S. If I was going to stay N/A I probably would have done a 4v swap as well but you have to start somewhere.
No offense to darkhorse but as I remember it his set-up was a stock 5.4, with a stock truck intake, and stock pi heads and cams. Of course your not going to make crazy numbers with that set up. I am personally really interested to see what this ben guy's car is going to do with the upgrade in heads and cams. I'm not saying it's going to be a beast but let's just see some numbers first.
P.S. If I was going to stay N/A I probably would have done a 4v swap as well but you have to start somewhere.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,575
From: United States
RE: Here's the plan (Project 5.4)
All I am saying is that the results that I have seen and heard of do not line up with what your thinking is going to happen. I hope it all works out, but it doesn't seem to be for alot of people.
With the extremely plentiful supply of 5.4L blocks out there (availble cheap) I cannot see how if this really worked that great it would not be an insanely popular mod. The small headaches of headers etc etc are not that big of a problem to surmount, and if it worked that great the companys out there would be selling swap kits, beileve me if there was money to be made on it they would do it.
its not popular for a reason... And on top of that, itsnot nessicarry. There are plenty of full weight shortblock/heads/cams/intake/bolton cars (with FI) going 10s out there with only simple (aka stock style) suspension setups.... what more do you need?
its the same thing with the 4v swap.. sure you can do it, and sure it will make more power, but do you really need anything faster than a 10 second street car?
With the extremely plentiful supply of 5.4L blocks out there (availble cheap) I cannot see how if this really worked that great it would not be an insanely popular mod. The small headaches of headers etc etc are not that big of a problem to surmount, and if it worked that great the companys out there would be selling swap kits, beileve me if there was money to be made on it they would do it.
its not popular for a reason... And on top of that, itsnot nessicarry. There are plenty of full weight shortblock/heads/cams/intake/bolton cars (with FI) going 10s out there with only simple (aka stock style) suspension setups.... what more do you need?
its the same thing with the 4v swap.. sure you can do it, and sure it will make more power, but do you really need anything faster than a 10 second street car?
4th Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,143
From:
RE: Here's the plan (Project 5.4)
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: ackuric
Id listen to darkhorse, he was one of the first ppl I know of to do the swap, its not logical, not cost-effecient, and is just a waste of money, unless your fighting for that 8-9 second pass in the quarter...
Youre thinking about one extremely dumbass setup, unless done properly, with lots of money.
i'd put w/e money your thinkning of investing towards a 4v, or a supercharger, both 5.4 and 4.6 are limited to 450ish...
btw you wouldnt last very long pushing 350 rwhp and a 100 shot of nitrous on that 5.4 unless you did get a forged assembly
[/blockquote]
I really wish you knew what you were talking about before you made a dumbass post. It actually doesn't take a lot of money for the swap and you say "unless done properly". How are you planning on doing it wrong? You take your 4.6 out and put a 5.4 in. It's about as straight forward as it gets. You actually proved my point within your post. You said "both are limited to 450ish", you're are correct so why would I bother switching to a 4v if I'm going to be at that point anyways. I can make enough power to blow up everything on my car before I need to worth about a 4v swap. There is no difference between this arguement and the rest of the guys on here with 4.6 2v's saying you don't need 4v's to make power. The only difference is you will have a better power band then the 4.6 guys.
ORIGINAL: ackuric
Id listen to darkhorse, he was one of the first ppl I know of to do the swap, its not logical, not cost-effecient, and is just a waste of money, unless your fighting for that 8-9 second pass in the quarter...
Youre thinking about one extremely dumbass setup, unless done properly, with lots of money.
i'd put w/e money your thinkning of investing towards a 4v, or a supercharger, both 5.4 and 4.6 are limited to 450ish...
btw you wouldnt last very long pushing 350 rwhp and a 100 shot of nitrous on that 5.4 unless you did get a forged assembly
[/blockquote]
I really wish you knew what you were talking about before you made a dumbass post. It actually doesn't take a lot of money for the swap and you say "unless done properly". How are you planning on doing it wrong? You take your 4.6 out and put a 5.4 in. It's about as straight forward as it gets. You actually proved my point within your post. You said "both are limited to 450ish", you're are correct so why would I bother switching to a 4v if I'm going to be at that point anyways. I can make enough power to blow up everything on my car before I need to worth about a 4v swap. There is no difference between this arguement and the rest of the guys on here with 4.6 2v's saying you don't need 4v's to make power. The only difference is you will have a better power band then the 4.6 guys.
you can do it improper like...throwing the money into it when its not neccesary, thats one aspect, or you can build it poorly, forged all teh way or go home.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,412
From: MN
RE: Here's the plan (Project 5.4)
It's not all about necessity. Is anything that we do to our cars a necessity? I don't think so. It's about doing something different that'll make you stand out in the crowd. There are so many modular mustangs running around it's nice to just say there's something different to my car then any other car I drive past. Plus the extra power doesn't hurt anything. I'm not saying everyone should run out and do this swap. Actually I would prefer you didn't, otherwise it would just be another dime a dozen set-up. I guess if you're doing this swap for insane power increase, the only thing insane may be you. I just think/hope it's going to make a lot more of a difference then you guys think. When I get my car tuned I will get the tuner to lay my dyno sheet on-top of a 4.6 car with similar mods so we can see the real difference.
I just thought I'd add the only reason I started doing the swap in the first place is I had about 80k miles on my engine and it start to consume oil and I found a low mile 5.4 for a decent price.
I just thought I'd add the only reason I started doing the swap in the first place is I had about 80k miles on my engine and it start to consume oil and I found a low mile 5.4 for a decent price.