Is It true?
03-09-2010, 06:18 PM
#24
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Slidell, Louisiana
Posts: 5,726
the reason why I asked "why" is to make people think. I've noticed that once someone says something everyone jumps on the bandwagon, I figured asking why would be a good way to find out what everyone was thinking. In my opinion the stock bottom end will spin high enough to reach max hp, who knows if he can actually hit 400hp but I'd bet that when ever rpm it made max hp at, the stock bottom end could handle it. This is assuming that it had a good balancer. Forging a motor will allow it to handle more HP, but will not produce a signification gain in itself. It would be a good idea if he ends up going FI in the future. AS far as the TrickFlow bandwagon, I'm sure they are good heads but the real world results that I've seen tell me that they aren't what they are crack up to be, until someone finally figures out the right combo for them.
03-09-2010, 06:52 PM
#25
Go Texas!!!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 4,613
ok cool guys thanks for all the helpfull info but heres a twist. im getting another 2v engine my cousins giving me its a late 01 gt engine. im going to work on that and i decided too much money to go NA so i will go SC eventually but what do i need to start on getting for this new project engine? should i port and polish bore it out if so how much etc.... thanks
03-09-2010, 07:03 PM
#26
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 248
Yeah, forged pistons in and of themselves are not a power adder. If anything, they'll take a slight amount away because of their weight. As I said in much my lengthier post, forging isn't even necessary for most basic supercharging. For an off the shelf system you might buy from Kenne Bell or Vortech (although centris tend to like higher compression, and roots/twin screws tend to like lower compression), nevertheless these things aren't such a big issue, as the kit has been engineered to work reliably in nearly all circumstances without having to worry about compression, tuning, fuel, etc. Everything you need is part of the kit, but there is a draw back to using a canned tune. It'll leave a lot on the table, so if you have a reputable tuner, they can have just as safe a tune with considerably better power, equally as driveable.
But it doesn't take long and you begin to start searching the accessories section of the site and you notice they're selling pulleys that will increase boost, which in turn means more power. You can put on bigger injectors, smaller pulleys, 8-rib kits, etc...all which Vortech say fit your car, and they do, but now you've gone beyond what the kit that you bought was developed to push out, thus going beyond the limits of the car in many circumstances. It's when you start reaching these areas and try to make much more power than the pistons and rods can handle that forging becomes and issue. And again, lots of people have driven around with a car having X number of miles, X number of hp @ X number of boost and drive it hard all the time without problems, and they're probably right. But it only takes one mechanical/tuning mistake to cause a variable to go out of line for a fraction of second and it's game over. By the time you actually hear the detonation, damage might already be done.
If you never plan to go beyond the designs of the kit developed for you application, you'll be fine. But the majority of the performance population is just like any other person with power, the more they get, the more they want and there's only so much stock internals can handle. If you want some higher numbers on the dyno, want to run some more boost, etc, you're eventually going to want forged internals anyways. Plus, if you rebuild while things aren't broken, you can at least salvage some of the cost by way of selling the stock components. If they're broken, you can't do that. Plus, he said the motor's already out, so now is the time to build it...I prefer doing things while I have a chance.
Anyways, detonation isn't just a forced induction issue. For high horsepower N/A, you'll begin to need more compression and the more compression you have the risks become all the same.
But it doesn't take long and you begin to start searching the accessories section of the site and you notice they're selling pulleys that will increase boost, which in turn means more power. You can put on bigger injectors, smaller pulleys, 8-rib kits, etc...all which Vortech say fit your car, and they do, but now you've gone beyond what the kit that you bought was developed to push out, thus going beyond the limits of the car in many circumstances. It's when you start reaching these areas and try to make much more power than the pistons and rods can handle that forging becomes and issue. And again, lots of people have driven around with a car having X number of miles, X number of hp @ X number of boost and drive it hard all the time without problems, and they're probably right. But it only takes one mechanical/tuning mistake to cause a variable to go out of line for a fraction of second and it's game over. By the time you actually hear the detonation, damage might already be done.
If you never plan to go beyond the designs of the kit developed for you application, you'll be fine. But the majority of the performance population is just like any other person with power, the more they get, the more they want and there's only so much stock internals can handle. If you want some higher numbers on the dyno, want to run some more boost, etc, you're eventually going to want forged internals anyways. Plus, if you rebuild while things aren't broken, you can at least salvage some of the cost by way of selling the stock components. If they're broken, you can't do that. Plus, he said the motor's already out, so now is the time to build it...I prefer doing things while I have a chance.
Anyways, detonation isn't just a forced induction issue. For high horsepower N/A, you'll begin to need more compression and the more compression you have the risks become all the same.
Last edited by dastangman; 03-09-2010 at 07:14 PM.
03-09-2010, 09:25 PM
#28
Forged pistons that i was talking about would be for added compression because compression itself does add horsepower. Thats why i suggested those. But i thought that no matter what that the rods were the weak point and for high rpm applications they should be upgraded. But i guess as long as you use a mach damper or something better that you should be fine.
03-09-2010, 11:00 PM
#30
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,944
the reason why I asked "why" is to make people think. I've noticed that once someone says something everyone jumps on the bandwagon, I figured asking why would be a good way to find out what everyone was thinking. In my opinion the stock bottom end will spin high enough to reach max hp, who knows if he can actually hit 400hp but I'd bet that when ever rpm it made max hp at, the stock bottom end could handle it. This is assuming that it had a good balancer. Forging a motor will allow it to handle more HP, but will not produce a signification gain in itself. It would be a good idea if he ends up going FI in the future. AS far as the TrickFlow bandwagon, I'm sure they are good heads but the real world results that I've seen tell me that they aren't what they are crack up to be, until someone finally figures out the right combo for them.