Supercharger
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,278
From: Concord, NC
RE: Supercharger
Don't look at any centrifugal s/c then, that includes: Procharger, Vortech, Paxton and Powerdyne.
You should be looking at twin screws such as Kenne Bell and Saleen. A roots s/c would also work but they aren't as efficient and are limited in their power production, these include the Roush and Magnacharger. The Whipple is also a twin screw but is EXPENSIVE and is still a pipe dream b/c no one has seen a production piece yet.
You might also want to look at turbos, turbo lag is over stated by the uninformed. I have full boost by 2900 and it's hard to argue with the numbers in my sig on an otherwise stock car including the mufflers!
You should be looking at twin screws such as Kenne Bell and Saleen. A roots s/c would also work but they aren't as efficient and are limited in their power production, these include the Roush and Magnacharger. The Whipple is also a twin screw but is EXPENSIVE and is still a pipe dream b/c no one has seen a production piece yet.
You might also want to look at turbos, turbo lag is over stated by the uninformed. I have full boost by 2900 and it's hard to argue with the numbers in my sig on an otherwise stock car including the mufflers!
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 206
RE: Supercharger
1Quick I'm looking at getting done up with a Hellion Turbo by Delk Performance possibly.
What boost are you running to reach those numbers and more importantly since you say that's relatively stock, do you feel your running "safe" at that level, given the stories about cars blowing engines in the 425-450rwhp range (albeit perhaps with more boost)?
I was quoted approximately 445rwhp at 8psi, see you're doing better than that.
What boost are you running to reach those numbers and more importantly since you say that's relatively stock, do you feel your running "safe" at that level, given the stories about cars blowing engines in the 425-450rwhp range (albeit perhaps with more boost)?
I was quoted approximately 445rwhp at 8psi, see you're doing better than that.
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,278
From: Concord, NC
RE: Supercharger
I am running 9.5psi right now, the dyno numbers in my sig are VERY safe and were done on a hot motor. I am sure I could get higher numbers if it were dyno'd cold. I will be switching to my 11psi wastegate spring today or tomorrow.
1st Gear Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 51
RE: Supercharger
ORIGINAL: lukoi66
1Quick I'm looking at getting done up with a Hellion Turbo by Delk Performance possibly.
What boost are you running to reach those numbers and more importantly since you say that's relatively stock, do you feel your running "safe" at that level, given the stories about cars blowing engines in the 425-450rwhp range (albeit perhaps with more boost)?
I was quoted approximately 445rwhp at 8psi, see you're doing better than that.
1Quick I'm looking at getting done up with a Hellion Turbo by Delk Performance possibly.
What boost are you running to reach those numbers and more importantly since you say that's relatively stock, do you feel your running "safe" at that level, given the stories about cars blowing engines in the 425-450rwhp range (albeit perhaps with more boost)?
I was quoted approximately 445rwhp at 8psi, see you're doing better than that.
If you decide on a KenneBell/ Powerhouse Turbo, or even a saleen for that matter send me an email/pm if you plan on having a shop do it. I noticed you are in the KY/TN area I can recommend a good shop to do the install for you.
Josh
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 206
RE: Supercharger
Dude PM away!
It's looking like Turbo for now. Saleen would be my second choice at this point. It's really an issue of money AND my impatience. I know, I know, stupid, but ya know, after 10 months in this sandbox (IRAQ) I'm frankly just not going to wait longer than I have to get some HP.
1Quick, I realize the boost isn't excessive but just the pure HP #'s being at that height, you aren't overly worried about blowing the engine? I keep hearing that 425-450 is the limit for "safe" for these engines. Is it more along the lines of boost in reality (which happens to coincide with certain rwhp #'s) or is rwhp the real indicator of how to judge the strain on the engine?
Do you have to treat the car differently, drive it differently than you might normally, with that level of boost given the lack of forged internals? Are ya getting forged internals? Sorry to ask so many questions but I'm so close to getting home and want to get this done right, with minimal dicking around
So, the more I know now the better off I'll be :P
Thanks fellas, all good info. And Josh, I wasn't kidding, lemme know
Mike
It's looking like Turbo for now. Saleen would be my second choice at this point. It's really an issue of money AND my impatience. I know, I know, stupid, but ya know, after 10 months in this sandbox (IRAQ) I'm frankly just not going to wait longer than I have to get some HP.
1Quick, I realize the boost isn't excessive but just the pure HP #'s being at that height, you aren't overly worried about blowing the engine? I keep hearing that 425-450 is the limit for "safe" for these engines. Is it more along the lines of boost in reality (which happens to coincide with certain rwhp #'s) or is rwhp the real indicator of how to judge the strain on the engine?
Do you have to treat the car differently, drive it differently than you might normally, with that level of boost given the lack of forged internals? Are ya getting forged internals? Sorry to ask so many questions but I'm so close to getting home and want to get this done right, with minimal dicking around
So, the more I know now the better off I'll be :PThanks fellas, all good info. And Josh, I wasn't kidding, lemme know
Mike
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,278
From: Concord, NC
RE: Supercharger
Mike - First off thanks for serving, your work is appreciated. [sm=americanasmiley.gif]
Setting a hp number as a maximum safe amount is somewhat deceptive. The primary thing to remember when comparing RWHP numbers is parasitic loss. Superchargers have considerably more parasitic loss when compared to turbos. Basically if the same amount of fuel and air is injested then the turbo will make about 50 more hp to the wheels on an otherwise identical motor and tune. I typed a lengthy explanation here: https://mustangforums.com/m_1683484/tm.htm
I drive my car very aggressively, having an excellent tune is the key. I am planning on building a short block, but right now I am happy with where my car is at. Powerhouse has well over 100 passes on their shop car at over 500rwhp on the stock block, again it's all about the tune and the fuel.
Kevin
Setting a hp number as a maximum safe amount is somewhat deceptive. The primary thing to remember when comparing RWHP numbers is parasitic loss. Superchargers have considerably more parasitic loss when compared to turbos. Basically if the same amount of fuel and air is injested then the turbo will make about 50 more hp to the wheels on an otherwise identical motor and tune. I typed a lengthy explanation here: https://mustangforums.com/m_1683484/tm.htm
I drive my car very aggressively, having an excellent tune is the key. I am planning on building a short block, but right now I am happy with where my car is at. Powerhouse has well over 100 passes on their shop car at over 500rwhp on the stock block, again it's all about the tune and the fuel.
Kevin
1st Gear Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 51
RE: Supercharger
ORIGINAL: lukoi66
Dude PM away!
It's looking like Turbo for now. Saleen would be my second choice at this point. It's really an issue of money AND my impatience. I know, I know, stupid, but ya know, after 10 months in this sandbox (IRAQ) I'm frankly just not going to wait longer than I have to get some HP.
1Quick, I realize the boost isn't excessive but just the pure HP #'s being at that height, you aren't overly worried about blowing the engine? I keep hearing that 425-450 is the limit for "safe" for these engines. Is it more along the lines of boost in reality (which happens to coincide with certain rwhp #'s) or is rwhp the real indicator of how to judge the strain on the engine?
Do you have to treat the car differently, drive it differently than you might normally, with that level of boost given the lack of forged internals? Are ya getting forged internals? Sorry to ask so many questions but I'm so close to getting home and want to get this done right, with minimal dicking around So, the more I know now the better off I'll be :P
Thanks fellas, all good info. And Josh, I wasn't kidding, lemme know
Mike
Dude PM away!
It's looking like Turbo for now. Saleen would be my second choice at this point. It's really an issue of money AND my impatience. I know, I know, stupid, but ya know, after 10 months in this sandbox (IRAQ) I'm frankly just not going to wait longer than I have to get some HP.
1Quick, I realize the boost isn't excessive but just the pure HP #'s being at that height, you aren't overly worried about blowing the engine? I keep hearing that 425-450 is the limit for "safe" for these engines. Is it more along the lines of boost in reality (which happens to coincide with certain rwhp #'s) or is rwhp the real indicator of how to judge the strain on the engine?
Do you have to treat the car differently, drive it differently than you might normally, with that level of boost given the lack of forged internals? Are ya getting forged internals? Sorry to ask so many questions but I'm so close to getting home and want to get this done right, with minimal dicking around
So, the more I know now the better off I'll be :PThanks fellas, all good info. And Josh, I wasn't kidding, lemme know
Mike
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 18
RE: Supercharger
Wow, those are amazing numbers ! I have some Newbie questions about our block / internals / and your setup 1QuickShortBus.
1- I know our blocks are Aluminum, Do they have a Steel or Iorn Sleeve?
2- What are our Rods and Piston's made of ? Forged Steel ?
3- Do we have any method of direct Oil Injection onto our pistons to help prevent detonation ?
4- QuickBus: Are you running a stock ECU Tuned, or did you go completely aftermarket to compensate for the retarding of ignition timing as boost pressure comes up?
5- QuickBus: What size injector are you running (or did you add a secondary set) and at what PSI ?
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 441
From:
RE: Supercharger
ORIGINAL: wakebord1999
Wow, those are amazing numbers ! I have some Newbie questions about our block / internals / and your setup 1QuickShortBus.
1- I know our blocks are Aluminum, Do they have a Steel or Iorn Sleeve?
2- What are our Rods and Piston's made of ? Forged Steel ?
3- Do we have any method of direct Oil Injection onto our pistons to help prevent detonation ?
4- QuickBus: Are you running a stock ECU Tuned, or did you go completely aftermarket to compensate for the retarding of ignition timing as boost pressure comes up?
5- QuickBus: What size injector are you running (or did you add a secondary set) and at what PSI ?
Wow, those are amazing numbers ! I have some Newbie questions about our block / internals / and your setup 1QuickShortBus.
1- I know our blocks are Aluminum, Do they have a Steel or Iorn Sleeve?
2- What are our Rods and Piston's made of ? Forged Steel ?
3- Do we have any method of direct Oil Injection onto our pistons to help prevent detonation ?
4- QuickBus: Are you running a stock ECU Tuned, or did you go completely aftermarket to compensate for the retarding of ignition timing as boost pressure comes up?
5- QuickBus: What size injector are you running (or did you add a secondary set) and at what PSI ?
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,278
From: Concord, NC
RE: Supercharger
ORIGINAL: wakebord1999
Wow, those are amazing numbers ! I have some Newbie questions about our block / internals / and your setup 1QuickShortBus.
1- I know our blocks are Aluminum, Do they have a Steel or Iorn Sleeve?
2- What are our Rods and Piston's made of ? Forged Steel ?
3- Do we have any method of direct Oil Injection onto our pistons to help prevent detonation ?
4- QuickBus: Are you running a stock ECU Tuned, or did you go completely aftermarket to compensate for the retarding of ignition timing as boost pressure comes up?
5- QuickBus: What size injector are you running (or did you add a secondary set) and at what PSI ?
Wow, those are amazing numbers ! I have some Newbie questions about our block / internals / and your setup 1QuickShortBus.
1- I know our blocks are Aluminum, Do they have a Steel or Iorn Sleeve?
2- What are our Rods and Piston's made of ? Forged Steel ?
3- Do we have any method of direct Oil Injection onto our pistons to help prevent detonation ?
4- QuickBus: Are you running a stock ECU Tuned, or did you go completely aftermarket to compensate for the retarding of ignition timing as boost pressure comes up?
5- QuickBus: What size injector are you running (or did you add a secondary set) and at what PSI ?
2. Rods are powdered steel, pistons are hypereutectic aluminum. The pistons are weak primarily because of the very high ring package and because they are hypereutectic, the rods are weak because they are powdered steel and not forged.
3. It can be done, Mark CK has did it on his built motor.
4. Stock ECU with an XCal2 for tuning
5. 39lb injectors.