fordfanboy

I wanted to replace my manual trans brake valve body cause my transbrake had a couple second delay. The unit that was in my Art Car trans was poorly made IMO as it seemed they just cheaply modified a stock plate. I ordered a PA (Performance Automatic) trans brake valve body cause PA has a good reputation of making some of the best high performance trans parts.

The PA valve body looked light years ahead of the art car. It was a complete custom plate with numerous more cuts and paths for high flow.

The one thing I noticed immediately was my Art Car valve body and several others I have seen for C4's and AOD's had placed the TB/Line pressure valve wide open at all times by using some sort of clip to hold it full open all the time. This keeps full line pressure at all times in the trans.

The PA valve body didn't have any such clip and the TB/Line pressure valve was closed and I didn't understand how it would open and allow full line pressure when you went WOT.

I went to PA's website and watched the instruction video....(Warning it's huge and almost 90 mb)

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/videos/aodvbs.wmv

Now in the end of the vid, you can clearly see/hear where they say you don't need to do anything with the TB/Line pressure valve. I thought this was very strange so I called them TWICE and spoke o them about it. They explained to me that the paths allowed for the trans fluid to push open the TB/Line pressure valve when under WOT.

Now that still seemed wrong to me (I am no expert at all) because I just couldn't see how the pressure would open the valve all the way. It seemed to me the valve would only open enough to allow any kind of flow or line pressure. PA ASSURED ME that thier design didn't require clipping or placing the TB/Line pressure valve full open at all times was neccessary. The were adamant that the flow and paths would do it automatically when needed. This still seemed wrong to me (and my transmission guy Tony) but they are the 'experts' and it is there product so we put it on as told.

Now, imagine my suprise when after install, I drove the car 10 MILES and then the trans SMOKED!!! [sm=WTFsgign.gif]

The sprag smoked, all the second gear clutches and frictions smoked, and this was within 10 MILES and FIFTEEN MINUTES!!! [:@]

I call PA and they again tell me that they have cuts to allow flow to open the TB/Line pressure valve when needed at WOT. We pull the trans a part, and low and behold there is NO SUCH CUTS OR PATHS TO ALLOW ANY KIND OF FLOW TO OPEN THE VALVE!! [sm=icon_flaming.gif]

The PA valve body is still a great piece but this is a MAJOR FLAW that is nowhere addressed by them in any of their instructions, personal support, or instalation videos but it is a FACT that the TB/Line pressure valve needs to clipped or pinned back to allow full line pressure or you will not have full line pressure ever in your trans. It is a really crappy deal, cause it allows a little pressure which is worse than no pressure at all because with no pressure at all, you'll know it instantly before you do any damage. The real crappy part is you get just enough line pressure to thinnk the trasn is working fine and then you'll smoke it on your test drive almost instantly when you go WOT. [sm=icon_flaming.gif]

This post is a combination of a rant, warning, and question to others familiar with transmissions of they have ever heard of any valve bodies that work like PA exlpains there's is supposed to. I personally have never seen one (on a full manual trans) that works as they describe. I have always seen the TB/Line pressure valve pinned or clipped open at all times.

Any feedback is appreciated.

hammeron

is PA going to help pay for the repairs
to your tranny

baha

I'm no expert either. I'm sorry for your trouble, hope you get everything fixed. PA should pay for the damages ofcoures.

The Ghost

I am not familliar with PA. but I have run several trans-dapt Cheeta valve bodies and the line was clipped. Most of my experience is in rebuilding C-4 tranny's. I say warranty, but it still sucks to be spinnin' wrenches when you should be driving. Also, I am a bit dissapointed that the Art Carr unit wasn't what you expected, i have read good things about them.

fordfanboy

Thanks Ghost! That is the info I was looking for. I have only worked with a couple C4's and AOD's so didn't know if the fact all the ones I have seen had clipped back the line pressure valve was the norm or not. It really appears so. I also found 2 other people who had the same issue I did with the PA VB and all they got were replacements that did the same damn thing within a few miles. (valve clipped/pinned or not!)

I was considering just clipping it back myself but now I'm concerned about the whole unit. There's so many darn holes, paths, etc. in VB's, it doesn't take much to throw something off. Better off with something tried and proven. At least I bought it from summit (my favorite place to shop BTW...plug...plug...lol) so I think I can get my money back through them.

The problem with Art Carr is it's not Art Carr anymore. (I didn't know this when I bought my trans)

Art Carr retired and sold his name to a shop in Texas that peddels their wares under his name and their products are crap. [:@]

For those of you asking about PA paying for the damages... Unfortuneately this is the first lesson you'll learn when you get into high performance race parts - unless a blatant misreprentation or defect in a specific piece, their is no liability at all. Now if their VB's were supposed to be pinned or clipped back and mine wasn't for some oversight, then they have a little responsibility. In this case, it's just a crappy product in general so it's on me. Sucks...but the way it is.

That's why forums like this are a GREAT thing...


We can get real feedback from people who don't have a stake in you buying the part...

steelcomp

Quote fordfanboy: "I call PA and they again tell me that they have cuts to allow flow to open the TB/Line pressure valve when needed at WOT. We pull the trans a part, and low and behold there is NO SUCH CUTS OR PATHS TO ALLOW ANY KIND OF FLOW TO OPEN THE VALVE!! [sm=icon_flaming.gif]"

Sounds to me like misrepresentation of a product. I'd be after them a little more "agressively" to either show me where these so called "cuts" are, or show them to my attorney.

fordfanboy

Maybe so but all in all it's costing me about $600 to fix my trans and summit is giving me my money back for the VB. You have to weigh if $600 is worth the hassle. Believe me, I know it's not sometimes...lol

I have sued a vendor before (JDM Engineering) when they cost me a 10K motor because of blatant ignorance. (they didn't replace the valve guides as they claim in their heads and I tapped a piston within 5 minutes) and that was a nightmare ordeal that showed me the lengths and BS some vendors will go through to get out of doing what's right. They ended up paying out more money to cover it up then they would have just to make it right in the first place...[:@]

The Ghost

All hail Summit!! Those guys really do try to make things right. I have done business with them for roughly 20 yrs. AndI have pretty much nothing bad to say. Their tech guys will work with you until there is a reasonable outcome no matter what. However, it sucks ***** thatPA is not going to honor their VB. I would bet that they don't show up in Summit next month. I've seen a lot of vendors come and go in that catalog.

fordfanboy

Ditto. Everything on my car that could be bought at summit - was bought at summit. They sent me a return slip five minutes after I called, no questions asked. I have been a customer for about as long as you...damn we're old[:@]...lol