MegaSquirt Questions.
03-20-2010, 10:14 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 240
MegaSquirt Questions.
I'm getting ready to dive into a 2.3T swap into my 93 mustang. I plan on using the engine pretty much in its stock form right now, but I do have a modified 16v Volvo head ready to go, and I plan on doing an ITB intake for it.
With all that going on, It would seem pretty foolish to keep running the stock EFI system. Not only will it not be able to keep up with this set up, I want to be able to tune every part of my system including spark.
Now I have been doing a little research on the MegaSquirt system and believe that would be the best way for me to go. However I have some questions about it that I haven't found any answers to yet. First off, I haven't noticed any talk of using either a VAM or MAF with this set up. Are one of these sensors still necessary, or does the ECU not use them at all? Second, I know they talk about using an IAC, but the intake system I would like to use doesn't have that option. Is an IAC necessary to make an EFI system work? How do you get around not using it, just keep the throttle position stop a fuzz open?
I know I still have a lot of learning to do, but I know some of you guys are using MS in your Mustangs and any info on how your set up is would help!
With all that going on, It would seem pretty foolish to keep running the stock EFI system. Not only will it not be able to keep up with this set up, I want to be able to tune every part of my system including spark.
Now I have been doing a little research on the MegaSquirt system and believe that would be the best way for me to go. However I have some questions about it that I haven't found any answers to yet. First off, I haven't noticed any talk of using either a VAM or MAF with this set up. Are one of these sensors still necessary, or does the ECU not use them at all? Second, I know they talk about using an IAC, but the intake system I would like to use doesn't have that option. Is an IAC necessary to make an EFI system work? How do you get around not using it, just keep the throttle position stop a fuzz open?
I know I still have a lot of learning to do, but I know some of you guys are using MS in your Mustangs and any info on how your set up is would help!
03-21-2010, 03:25 PM
#2
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wooster OH
Posts: 1,240
I have not done a whole lot of MS research, but I do know that it does away with the VAM completely. Just attach a filter to the end of the turbo and you are good to go. As for the IAC, I am unsure. There actually aren't many people in this area using MS, but turboford.net is an excellent 2.3T resource. You should lurk around over there for a while.
03-23-2010, 05:27 PM
#3
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 3,451
You don't need a vam or maf. It's a speed density setup, but your ability to edit the ve tables make it very easy to work with. The ones i've installed in my own & other people's cars were easy to get going. The first one gave me a little bit of trouble because I bought it preassembled, it was built to drive coil packs so it kept going through coils. After fixing that, getting it to idle & run was pretty easy. The second one I did was a plug & play setup. I assembled it & gutted a ford eec from the junkyard & wired the ms2 into the connector so it could plug into the existing harness. My ranger I rewired the whole truck & did away with 80% of the wiring for my own setup because I wanted something easy to work on.
You can run it with a maf if you want, a few people have. Personally I prefer the sd setup so there is no inlet restriction & problem diagnosing is easier. The iac is not required, but I personally recommend it. You can do a remote mount setup by threading two fittings into the intake before & after the tb, then mount the iac on the firewall.
Tuning... the first one took me about an hour to get everything ironed out, my truck I had a rough tune in about 5 minutes. There's a lot to the ms2, it kind of takes playing around with them to get the hang of it. I would download the software & just look through some of the menus then reading a little about it.
I also recommend building it yourself to get an idea of what does what. I chose to do mine because I wanted to learn more about it & I opted for the 4 bar map sensor & some better looking leds. I left some of the unnecessary things out of my ms2.
You can run it with a maf if you want, a few people have. Personally I prefer the sd setup so there is no inlet restriction & problem diagnosing is easier. The iac is not required, but I personally recommend it. You can do a remote mount setup by threading two fittings into the intake before & after the tb, then mount the iac on the firewall.
Tuning... the first one took me about an hour to get everything ironed out, my truck I had a rough tune in about 5 minutes. There's a lot to the ms2, it kind of takes playing around with them to get the hang of it. I would download the software & just look through some of the menus then reading a little about it.
I also recommend building it yourself to get an idea of what does what. I chose to do mine because I wanted to learn more about it & I opted for the 4 bar map sensor & some better looking leds. I left some of the unnecessary things out of my ms2.
03-24-2010, 06:26 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 240
FoxGT, where did you get your MS stuff from?
Also, you had said that you can run it w/o any type of IAC. How is this done? Is the throttle body open a hair at idle with your TPS set to 0% open at this position?
I am still a little confused about the ignition capibilities that MS2 has. I'm still learning as I go, so bare with me here lol. I know it can be used to control timing of the ignition. And I believe you can even run distributorless with it too. I would like to get rid of the dis and TFI ignition system and have it just run off the coil packs. Does any one know of a good way to go about doing this? what kind/make of coil should I look into?
Also, any chance I can peek at your numbers so I can have a base point for starting a tune with?
Also, you had said that you can run it w/o any type of IAC. How is this done? Is the throttle body open a hair at idle with your TPS set to 0% open at this position?
I am still a little confused about the ignition capibilities that MS2 has. I'm still learning as I go, so bare with me here lol. I know it can be used to control timing of the ignition. And I believe you can even run distributorless with it too. I would like to get rid of the dis and TFI ignition system and have it just run off the coil packs. Does any one know of a good way to go about doing this? what kind/make of coil should I look into?
Also, any chance I can peek at your numbers so I can have a base point for starting a tune with?
03-25-2010, 01:51 PM
#5
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wooster OH
Posts: 1,240
I believe LSX coils are popular in the 2.3T crowd.
http://www.turboford.net/cgi-bin/ult...81-144736-DBV3
http://www.turboford.net/ubb/ultimat...=049113#000010
http://www.turboford.net/cgi-bin/ult...81-144736-DBV3
http://www.turboford.net/ubb/ultimat...=049113#000010
03-25-2010, 03:14 PM
#6
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 3,451
I bought mine & the others that I've installed from diyautotune. They were very helpful when I ran into snags.
Yes. You run it a bit higher than stock & up the timing a bit under your idle rpm to help keep it from stalling. It can be done, but I found it behaved better when I had an iac. I noticed it doesn't seem to like power steering too much when you push in the clutch while turning a corner. I'm sure if I played around with it a bit more I probably could have got it to work well, I just found I prefer having a lower idle & keeping the iac.
You can run practically any ignition setup with the ms2. It has limited outputs though which isn't a problem with 4 cylinders. 8 cylinder engines would have to run a wasted spark setup if using coil packs. Which ones you go with are up to you. I've seen some people use the ford edis setup, junkyard coils from random cars, or the lsx. The lsx's use internal ignitors, don't require much power, & give you the ability to play with the dwell for high cylinder pressures; for that reason I would recommend looking for some, but they're a bit pricey. As for what you'll need. You have to use a crank wheel so the ms can tell where your pistons are so it knows when to fire. Most people use a 36-1 wheel, there are others out there, but it's most common. It has 36 teeth & 1 slot cut into it, you attach it to your crankshaft.
What numbers do you want to see? The truck isn't exactly stock so my tune isn't going to run well on your car. The ms will practically rough tune itself providing you keep it running for long enough for it to gather information. (which is about 20 seconds)
Yes. You run it a bit higher than stock & up the timing a bit under your idle rpm to help keep it from stalling. It can be done, but I found it behaved better when I had an iac. I noticed it doesn't seem to like power steering too much when you push in the clutch while turning a corner. I'm sure if I played around with it a bit more I probably could have got it to work well, I just found I prefer having a lower idle & keeping the iac.
You can run practically any ignition setup with the ms2. It has limited outputs though which isn't a problem with 4 cylinders. 8 cylinder engines would have to run a wasted spark setup if using coil packs. Which ones you go with are up to you. I've seen some people use the ford edis setup, junkyard coils from random cars, or the lsx. The lsx's use internal ignitors, don't require much power, & give you the ability to play with the dwell for high cylinder pressures; for that reason I would recommend looking for some, but they're a bit pricey. As for what you'll need. You have to use a crank wheel so the ms can tell where your pistons are so it knows when to fire. Most people use a 36-1 wheel, there are others out there, but it's most common. It has 36 teeth & 1 slot cut into it, you attach it to your crankshaft.
What numbers do you want to see? The truck isn't exactly stock so my tune isn't going to run well on your car. The ms will practically rough tune itself providing you keep it running for long enough for it to gather information. (which is about 20 seconds)
03-26-2010, 06:27 PM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 240
I was looking at DIYAutoTune as well. If you say they are good to deal with I will probably go through them.
I am still trying to decide what kind of intake system I will go with. I was thinking of doing an individual throttle body system (one TB per cylinder) and to run an IAC with a system like that would get pretty messy and complicated. And in an effort to squeeze a little more hp and clean up the car a bit, I have a manual flaming river rack for steering. So hopefully I can avoid that little issue!
The LS coils sound like a really good way to go... except for the fact I'll be spending $400 for new coils alone. That kinda turns me off. I feel kinda sorry for the guys with GM trucks! ouch
I also see some guys running with the DIS type coils. That looks more like the way I would go.
All I was looking for was a good point to start a tune at. However, if MegaSquirt will figure some of it out on its own for an initial tune, i can go from there.
I did read something interesting today about the 2.3T's...
Someone wanted to build a shelby cobra for road track racing. The chose to put a 2.3T in it to get some decent horsepower, while making it lighter in the front end for better cornering. The claimed they made a chip for the stock ford efi system, upped the boost (20lbs) and fed it more fuel. Also used and intercooler. I believe the rest of the engine was completely stock and they were claiming 355HP! Is this really possible?
I am still trying to decide what kind of intake system I will go with. I was thinking of doing an individual throttle body system (one TB per cylinder) and to run an IAC with a system like that would get pretty messy and complicated. And in an effort to squeeze a little more hp and clean up the car a bit, I have a manual flaming river rack for steering. So hopefully I can avoid that little issue!
The LS coils sound like a really good way to go... except for the fact I'll be spending $400 for new coils alone. That kinda turns me off. I feel kinda sorry for the guys with GM trucks! ouch
I also see some guys running with the DIS type coils. That looks more like the way I would go.
All I was looking for was a good point to start a tune at. However, if MegaSquirt will figure some of it out on its own for an initial tune, i can go from there.
I did read something interesting today about the 2.3T's...
Someone wanted to build a shelby cobra for road track racing. The chose to put a 2.3T in it to get some decent horsepower, while making it lighter in the front end for better cornering. The claimed they made a chip for the stock ford efi system, upped the boost (20lbs) and fed it more fuel. Also used and intercooler. I believe the rest of the engine was completely stock and they were claiming 355HP! Is this really possible?
06-07-2010, 01:06 PM
#9
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 264
Im actually in the process of ordering an MS plug and play complete unit from Diyautotune. But in oder to have them build one i have to answer a couple questions and i was wondering if you guys could help??
Im swapping an 88 TC motor and 5 speed into my 86 mustang n/a 2.3
Heres the parts list i have piled up in my garage for the swap-a polished and ceramic coated Hx35, engle 111 turbo cam, stinger header, 3inch down pipe, mid pipe, borla XR1 muffler with side exit exhaust, manual boost controller, 80lb injectors, 255lph fuel pump, big front mount intercooler, 38mm wastegate, tail bov, adjustable timing pulley, and a adjustable fuel pressure reg. Hopefulley that helps
My questions are,....
4. What type of ignition system does the 88 turbo coupe motor run- where is the crank angle sensor (CAS) or distributor trigger wheel and what type is it (Optical/LED Sensor? Hall Sensor? VR Sensor?)
5. How many teeth/windows/slots and what orientation does the CAS, crank trigger, and/or distributor wheel have? (any missing? all evenly spaced?)
6. Is there a distributor? Single/Multiple Coils? Coil on Plug?
7. Does this engine have a fast idle valve (IAC)? If so, how many wires are connected to it? Do you know if it is an on/off, pulse width modulated, thermal, or stepper type?
Thanks
Im swapping an 88 TC motor and 5 speed into my 86 mustang n/a 2.3
Heres the parts list i have piled up in my garage for the swap-a polished and ceramic coated Hx35, engle 111 turbo cam, stinger header, 3inch down pipe, mid pipe, borla XR1 muffler with side exit exhaust, manual boost controller, 80lb injectors, 255lph fuel pump, big front mount intercooler, 38mm wastegate, tail bov, adjustable timing pulley, and a adjustable fuel pressure reg. Hopefulley that helps
My questions are,....
4. What type of ignition system does the 88 turbo coupe motor run- where is the crank angle sensor (CAS) or distributor trigger wheel and what type is it (Optical/LED Sensor? Hall Sensor? VR Sensor?)
5. How many teeth/windows/slots and what orientation does the CAS, crank trigger, and/or distributor wheel have? (any missing? all evenly spaced?)
6. Is there a distributor? Single/Multiple Coils? Coil on Plug?
7. Does this engine have a fast idle valve (IAC)? If so, how many wires are connected to it? Do you know if it is an on/off, pulse width modulated, thermal, or stepper type?
Thanks
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