Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
04-04-2008, 02:03 PM
#151
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RE: Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
ORIGINAL: aode08
Its quite easy, The TPS tells the computer WHERE the Throttle Blade is at as well, its like a degree clock, the votage matches to the circle of degrees.
If your TB is at zero degrees= the TPS set at no voltage= car dont run.
The blade is now at 10* open to allow an idle, the voltage quickly goes to .97, .98 volts.
Its quite easy, The TPS tells the computer WHERE the Throttle Blade is at as well, its like a degree clock, the votage matches to the circle of degrees.
If your TB is at zero degrees= the TPS set at no voltage= car dont run.
The blade is now at 10* open to allow an idle, the voltage quickly goes to .97, .98 volts.
The only logical reason for putting the TB at any particular angle, is it's impact on the ISC duty cycles...
IF... the 10* angle was needed by the ecu, then there would be a scalar in the .bin file for setting this. No such scalar exists...
ORIGINAL: aode08
Look at the site that YOU GAVE ME again.
If throttle angle in relation to voltage did not matter, that chart would be non- existent, and Tuners, would not change TPS Voltage.
Look at the site that YOU GAVE ME again.
If throttle angle in relation to voltage did not matter, that chart would be non- existent, and Tuners, would not change TPS Voltage.
1. The chart does exist as a guideline... in my opinion mostly because of the impact on the ISC duty cycle...
2. When you talk about 'Tuners' what do you mean? Custom J3 chip, or Timing/fuel psi???
ORIGINAL: aode08
Tuners change TPS voltage and there is a reason.
Tuners change TPS voltage and there is a reason.
ORIGINAL: aode08
This is getting out of a TECH repsponse, into more of common since.
This is getting out of a TECH repsponse, into more of common since.
ORIGINAL: aode08
2.Go out to your 5.0 and set it to a lower voltage, please let us know how you like it and keep it there.
3. Have you ever noticed on a fox body, if set in the lower range,alot of them never make it to Voltage for WOT when floored? Thats something you have to go test for yourself and find out.
2.Go out to your 5.0 and set it to a lower voltage, please let us know how you like it and keep it there.
3. Have you ever noticed on a fox body, if set in the lower range,alot of them never make it to Voltage for WOT when floored? Thats something you have to go test for yourself and find out.
This has been proven to be false in the real world time and time again!!!!!!!!!!
I have seen it in my datalogs, as have others. If you are going to contradict this, then you need to supply some proof.
BRING A DATALOG or STFU!!!!
Reality is that the TPS triggers WOT based on an increase in TPS FROM the base idle setting.
Here is the math...
RATCH + 2.7*v = WOT
Set the TPS to .9v, then WOT will trigger at 3.6v
Set the TPS to .7v, then WOT will trigger at 3.4v
This is pretty simple stuff, which has been PROVEN both in documentation and real world data.
ORIGINAL: aode08
Its one thing to explain, how the ECM was wrote out, but what you left out are other factors.
Throttle angle corresponding to voltage is one of em.
Ill help you out here, , its 5pm, you tell your mom its 115 pm, you come home in a half hour from a game, no dinner.
The sensor is a speaker, the ecm is a listener, the throttle body is a clock of degrees, like a degree wheel. That voltage tells what degree the needle is on.
Its one thing to explain, how the ECM was wrote out, but what you left out are other factors.
Throttle angle corresponding to voltage is one of em.
Ill help you out here, , its 5pm, you tell your mom its 115 pm, you come home in a half hour from a game, no dinner.
The sensor is a speaker, the ecm is a listener, the throttle body is a clock of degrees, like a degree wheel. That voltage tells what degree the needle is on.
ORIGINAL: aode08
Temperature and vibration can have up a 15% variation, thats about plus or minus .15 volts .
If your at the lower end of the scale, and get -.15 bam, your out of range, sme for the upper scale.
Temperature and vibration can have up a 15% variation, thats about plus or minus .15 volts .
If your at the lower end of the scale, and get -.15 bam, your out of range, sme for the upper scale.
Yes, signal noise can push the TPS output out of range.
However...
Does this mean the TPS needs to be set to exactly .999v??? The answer here is NO.
You just need to keep the signal within range...
By the way... You're wrong on how you calculated signal variation.... You need to use 15% of the CURRENT value.
For example....
A 15% variation when the TPS is at .75v is only .75v x .15 = .1125v
Which means..... .75v - .1125v = .6375v
Still within range
I don't even agree that we should be using 15% though... most variation I have seen has been easily in the single digits... less than 10%.....
But, per documentation, that is the worst case scenario....
ORIGINAL: aode08
At .99 your at a 10* idle angle and +/- that change, your still within that field and no C/E.
Do the voltage math, then the degree scale match.
At .99 your at a 10* idle angle and +/- that change, your still within that field and no C/E.
Do the voltage math, then the degree scale match.
But .97v will work just as well.
.75v will work just as well.
1.05v will work just as well.
(you see a trend developing here?)
You are saying the same old stuff with each post.
And I am giving the same responses.
Please find some documentation to back your claims...
Find some verifiable Ford document, Find a scalar in a bin file, Find a datalog...
Find ANYTHING to back up your theory.
I'll have to come back to this later tonight...
But, while I am away...
AODE08 - I am challenging you to find ANY documentation to support your comments.
04-04-2008, 02:04 PM
#152
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RE: Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
aode08
I have posed several questions directly to you.
Please use the quote button, and make direct responses... it will make a discussion much easier...
I have posed several questions directly to you.
Please use the quote button, and make direct responses... it will make a discussion much easier...
04-04-2008, 02:07 PM
#153
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Join Date: May 2006
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Posts: 329
RE: Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
ORIGINAL: aode08
3. Have you ever noticed on a fox body, if set in the lower range,alot of them never make it to Voltage for WOT when floored[/b]? Thats something you have to go test for yourself and find out.
3. Have you ever noticed on a fox body, if set in the lower range,alot of them never make it to Voltage for WOT when floored[/b]? Thats something you have to go test for yourself and find out.
04-04-2008, 02:09 PM
#154
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RE: Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
ORIGINAL: Blckstng93
I have a 93 GT. I had the TPS set to .999 years ago. I dont know if it was pyschological, but it felt slightly faster off the line. Last year it started feeling sluggish off the line. A tuneup did nothing so i went for the TPS and it was reading .56 something. I reset it back to .999 and the sluggishness went away. Coincidence? Dont know.
But i am sure of this...
Whatever the throttle blades open up to, the TPS reads a given voltage, whatever it may be. The ECM or whatever you want to call it reads that voltage and adjusts the air/fuel according to that voltage. So, IMO, setting the TPS CAN make a difference. Or atleast in my GT it did.
I have a 93 GT. I had the TPS set to .999 years ago. I dont know if it was pyschological, but it felt slightly faster off the line. Last year it started feeling sluggish off the line. A tuneup did nothing so i went for the TPS and it was reading .56 something. I reset it back to .999 and the sluggishness went away. Coincidence? Dont know.
But i am sure of this...
Whatever the throttle blades open up to, the TPS reads a given voltage, whatever it may be. The ECM or whatever you want to call it reads that voltage and adjusts the air/fuel according to that voltage. So, IMO, setting the TPS CAN make a difference. Or atleast in my GT it did.
The ecu was in a limp mode, if you will.
You can't compare a 'limp home mode' to 'normal mode', and say that it was just because the tps was set to .99v
The TPS ouput is used as a delta...
A change in TPS output triggers a response from the ecu... The ecu does not care about the absolute values of the TPS output, as long as they are within acceptable ranges....
jason
04-04-2008, 02:49 PM
#156
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RE: Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
ORIGINAL: aode08
Its quite easy,
The TPS tells the computer WHERE the Throttle Blade is at as well, its like a degree clock, the votage matches to the circle of degrees.
If your TB is at zero degrees= the TPS set at no voltage= car dont run.
The blade is now at 10* open to allow an idle, the voltage quickly goes to .97, .98 volts.
Look at the site that YOU GAVE ME again.
If throttle angle in relation to voltage did not matter, that chart would be non- existent, and Tuners, would not change TPS Voltage.
Tuners change TPS voltage and there is a reason.
This is getting out of a TECH repsponse, into more of common since.
2.Go out to your 5.0 and set it to a lower voltage, please let us know how you like it and keep it there.
3. Have you ever noticed on a fox body, if set in the lower range,alot of them never make it to Voltage for WOT when floored? Thats something you have to go test for yourself and find out.
Its one thing to explain, how the ECM was wrote out, but what you left out are other factors.
Throttle angle corresponding to voltage is one of em.
Ill help you out here,, its 5pm, you tell your mom its 115 pm, you come home in a half hour from a game, no dinner.
The sensor is a speaker, the ecm is a listener, the throttle body is a clock of degrees, like a degree wheel. That voltage tells what degree the needle is on.
Temperature and vibration can have up a 15% variation, thats about plus or minus .15 volts .
If your at the lower end of the scale, and get -.15 bam, your out of range, sme for the upper scale.
At .99 your at a 10* idle angle and +/- that change, your still within that field and no C/E.
Do the voltage math, then the degree scale match.
Its quite easy,
The TPS tells the computer WHERE the Throttle Blade is at as well, its like a degree clock, the votage matches to the circle of degrees. If your TB is at zero degrees= the TPS set at no voltage= car dont run.
The blade is now at 10* open to allow an idle, the voltage quickly goes to .97, .98 volts.
Look at the site that YOU GAVE ME again.
If throttle angle in relation to voltage did not matter, that chart would be non- existent, and Tuners, would not change TPS Voltage.
Tuners change TPS voltage and there is a reason.
This is getting out of a TECH repsponse, into more of common since.
2.Go out to your 5.0 and set it to a lower voltage, please let us know how you like it and keep it there.
3. Have you ever noticed on a fox body, if set in the lower range,alot of them never make it to Voltage for WOT when floored? Thats something you have to go test for yourself and find out.
Its one thing to explain, how the ECM was wrote out, but what you left out are other factors.
Throttle angle corresponding to voltage is one of em.
Ill help you out here,
, its 5pm, you tell your mom its 115 pm, you come home in a half hour from a game, no dinner.The sensor is a speaker, the ecm is a listener, the throttle body is a clock of degrees, like a degree wheel. That voltage tells what degree the needle is on.
Temperature and vibration can have up a 15% variation, thats about plus or minus .15 volts .
If your at the lower end of the scale, and get -.15 bam, your out of range, sme for the upper scale.
At .99 your at a 10* idle angle and +/- that change, your still within that field and no C/E.
Do the voltage math, then the degree scale match.
Throttle relation is given as a reference point, the ECM does the filtering at any voltage you set it at as long as it falls within its acceptable range.
Regarding the cut ann paste comments you posted above:
2. BTSTDT PLENTY of times incuding at the track with customer's cars....... difference noticed?..... NONE, ZERO, NADA...... have you?.... and this includes emissions, performance and fuel consumption.
3. BTSTDT PLENTY of times..... if TPS base is .7... WOT strategy is triggered @3.41 vdc and above, if TPS base is 1.0 vdc..... WOT strategy is triggered when the TPS hits 3.71 vdc and above. Have you tested it yourself?..... I have. BTW.... how do you know WOT is not being achieved?..... I mean, ECM strategy wise.
I'm not only trying to explain how the ECM "was wrote"....... I'm providing confirmation DATA that it works.
Have you ever checked a SN95? It has datastream capabilities, so you can read the throttle blade state real time and confirm what the ECM "interprets"....FYI, CBAZA TPS strategy = GUFB TPS strategy...... if you set the TPS at .7 vdc and open the throttle so it reads .75 vdc..... the Throttle Position Mode changes from CT to PT (Closed Throttle to Partial Throttle). Now set the TPS to .8 and clear KAM...... NOW CT is at .8 vdc and PT is .85 .... this is exactly the way the GUFB works as well. Oh.... and WOT is registered at 3.41 vdc and 3.51 respectively...... guess what?..... it is exactly the same way EEC-V systems work as well.
If you set TPS at .9 vdc and a variation is seen by the ECM to .88 vdc..... the ECM will automatically set itself to the lowest value. BTW.... how can it be out of range if it doesn't fall below .49 vdc?.......
The TPS IS NOT an absolute angularity measuring device, it's a reference point provider, after the lowest is FILTERED by its logic, the ECM "decides" what to do based on its rate of change......
FYI ....Definition of rate :
[ol][*] A quantity measured with respect to another measured quantity[*] A measure of a part with respect to a whole; a proportion:[/ol]You mention the other factors...... what are they?...... can you point out how something not programmed in a computer has an effect in its calculations, functions? ....
Oh!.... and before I finish.... tuners changing the TPS value even though it's within range?....... an EFI Tuner deals with programs, functions, scalars, tables ...if he can't change the logic to better performance, fuel consumption and driveability with a EFI system within specifications, including its ranges......... if he's a tuner, w/out understanding the OEM logic........ I'm Iron Man.
04-04-2008, 09:29 PM
#157
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 580
RE: Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
[sm=hia.gif] [sm=groupwave.gif] [sm=happybounce.gif]
ALL in ALL it'd be in your best interest to set your TPS as close to .99 as possible...
My car ran better and idled better when I corrected my TPS setting..
A "joe-shmo" mechanic would set it anywhere btwn .7-1.3 and would not care b/c the MAJORITY of the people taking their car there WOULDN"T KNOW the difference....BC THEY DON"T KNOW CARS..
It takes 5 MINUTES TOPS to set your TPS......or check it for that matter
[:@]THE RIDICULOUSNESS OF THIS THREAD.... is were *ucking talking about a TPS VOLTAGE...... [:@]
This thread is only this long bc of my 3 or 4 pages of comments
= which i regret b/c i'm preaching to deaf ears.
The PROBLEM here is no matter HOW HARD you try to convince Joel/Jason.... they will provide you with "running around in circles" responses - and even PUT WORDS INTO YOUR MOUTH.... [sm=bs.gif]
I'm sorry but I only use CHILTON to figure out proper Torque Settings.....which Joel/Jason seem to love doing.....[sm=lol.gif]
The car and its parts work together..... IF it was designed to be configured/aligned/assembled/set-up/run/function that way.... WOULDN"T YOU WANT IT TO BE SET-UP THAT WAY - AS CLOSE TO .99???
HERE"S YOUR NON-FORD TECH honeyyy:::: It's the quickest thing I could find - with the time I have in my busy life.
AND I QUOTE:::::::: "It is important to get to know the function and servicing of this sensor for a couple of reasons. As with any electro-mechanical moving part, they have been known to malfunction or ultimately just plain wear out. Besides that, they are often victims of improper service procedures. These procedures will either result in damage to the sensor, or impair its range of operation. In any event, a malfunctioning, damaged, or misadjusted TPS will cause a variety of driveablility symptoms, often accompanied by a check engine MIL (malfunction indicator light) displayed on the instrument panel."
"The TPS does just what its name implies; it provides input to the engine management computer regarding the position of the throttle. How the computer processes that data depends on other prevailing conditions: engine speed, load, vehicle speed, engine and ambient temperatures, and so on. This information from the TPS is especially critical for proper startup and idle, as well as smooth throttle response."[sm=violin.gif]
~~~http://www.automedia.com/Throttle_Po...cr20040701ts/1
So by going in circles and over complicating things - were forced to make it seem like Joel/Jason ARE SMARTER than the engineers themselves (with degrees and years of expertise), WHO designed - developed AND understood it's reasoning far better than anyone. YEARS OF TESTING TOO....... DID you know that 60% (if not more) of engineer majors in college drop out (i.e. to Business major) bc its too tough and difficult???
Who's word you gonna take??? JOEL/JASONS or FORD's????
The above link is an Idle Setting Procedure sent to me by FORD themselves - If you want your own copy CALL UP FORD and ask for TECH...
That's as concrete as it gets - and I WON'T be DISCREDITED a second time OR be told by JOEL/JASON that my above TECH is FLAWED!!!! [sm=forgetit.gif]
The point is - if you give a BALLPARK figure to someone (i.e. .8-1.1) and they set it somewhere on the edge - their more than LIKELY to fall out of the range sooner = and a more LIKELYHOOD of driving around with a improperly RESPONSIVE car... so the CLOSER you are to .99... the BETTER OFF YOU'LL be....
THE PROBLEM is that IF you give out a ballpark range... a misaligned TPS will be more common = widespread like a virus to the already bad-idling-mustang-world
I have a 1990 Mustang with 3,000miles on it - BRAND NEW... the car was running/throttling/idling/surging funny and when I ADJUSTED my TPS the CAR RAN BETTER ALL AROUND.... At .6 or 1.3 your car won't RESPOND as best as it can or should....
"90% of the mustangs out there idle like crap bc the Idle Setting Procedure is overlooked." -- anonymous/reliable source deep in Ford territory (i.e. when someone adds horsepower OR a new motor)
You can try all you want to come up with a COLLABORATION OF MISINFORMATION........ [sm=laughat.gif] and [sm=rant.gif] all you want......
I suggest coming up with a response that DOESN'T QUOTE MY RESPONSES or ANYONE ELSES, that's NOT PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE, that's not taking my words OFFENSIVELY, , and that IS NOT MANIPULATIVE with words..... OR using my words to benefit yours = come up withe your own stuff......
CAN YOU DO THAT??? we'll see... [sm=icon_guiness.gif]
[sm=closed.gif][sm=hia.gif][sm=closed.gif]
IF were gonna talk about TECH kinds of things.... Let's discuss the creation of an 8-second TOMMY GUN....That still looks almost stock....?????
If anyone agrees with me = CLAP YOUR HANDS
ALL in ALL it'd be in your best interest to set your TPS as close to .99 as possible...
My car ran better and idled better when I corrected my TPS setting..
A "joe-shmo" mechanic would set it anywhere btwn .7-1.3 and would not care b/c the MAJORITY of the people taking their car there WOULDN"T KNOW the difference....BC THEY DON"T KNOW CARS..
It takes 5 MINUTES TOPS to set your TPS......or check it for that matter
[:@]THE RIDICULOUSNESS OF THIS THREAD.... is were *ucking talking about a TPS VOLTAGE...... [:@]
This thread is only this long bc of my 3 or 4 pages of comments
= which i regret b/c i'm preaching to deaf ears.The PROBLEM here is no matter HOW HARD you try to convince Joel/Jason.... they will provide you with "running around in circles" responses - and even PUT WORDS INTO YOUR MOUTH.... [sm=bs.gif]
I'm sorry but I only use CHILTON to figure out proper Torque Settings.....which Joel/Jason seem to love doing.....[sm=lol.gif]
The car and its parts work together..... IF it was designed to be configured/aligned/assembled/set-up/run/function that way.... WOULDN"T YOU WANT IT TO BE SET-UP THAT WAY - AS CLOSE TO .99???
HERE"S YOUR NON-FORD TECH honeyyy:::: It's the quickest thing I could find - with the time I have in my busy life.
AND I QUOTE:::::::: "It is important to get to know the function and servicing of this sensor for a couple of reasons. As with any electro-mechanical moving part, they have been known to malfunction or ultimately just plain wear out. Besides that, they are often victims of improper service procedures. These procedures will either result in damage to the sensor, or impair its range of operation. In any event, a malfunctioning, damaged, or misadjusted TPS will cause a variety of driveablility symptoms, often accompanied by a check engine MIL (malfunction indicator light) displayed on the instrument panel."
"The TPS does just what its name implies; it provides input to the engine management computer regarding the position of the throttle. How the computer processes that data depends on other prevailing conditions: engine speed, load, vehicle speed, engine and ambient temperatures, and so on. This information from the TPS is especially critical for proper startup and idle, as well as smooth throttle response."[sm=violin.gif]
~~~http://www.automedia.com/Throttle_Po...cr20040701ts/1
So by going in circles and over complicating things - were forced to make it seem like Joel/Jason ARE SMARTER than the engineers themselves (with degrees and years of expertise), WHO designed - developed AND understood it's reasoning far better than anyone. YEARS OF TESTING TOO....... DID you know that 60% (if not more) of engineer majors in college drop out (i.e. to Business major) bc its too tough and difficult???
Who's word you gonna take??? JOEL/JASONS or FORD's????
The above link is an Idle Setting Procedure sent to me by FORD themselves - If you want your own copy CALL UP FORD and ask for TECH...
That's as concrete as it gets - and I WON'T be DISCREDITED a second time OR be told by JOEL/JASON that my above TECH is FLAWED!!!! [sm=forgetit.gif]
The point is - if you give a BALLPARK figure to someone (i.e. .8-1.1) and they set it somewhere on the edge - their more than LIKELY to fall out of the range sooner = and a more LIKELYHOOD of driving around with a improperly RESPONSIVE car... so the CLOSER you are to .99... the BETTER OFF YOU'LL be....
THE PROBLEM is that IF you give out a ballpark range... a misaligned TPS will be more common = widespread like a virus to the already bad-idling-mustang-world
I have a 1990 Mustang with 3,000miles on it - BRAND NEW... the car was running/throttling/idling/surging funny and when I ADJUSTED my TPS the CAR RAN BETTER ALL AROUND.... At .6 or 1.3 your car won't RESPOND as best as it can or should....
"90% of the mustangs out there idle like crap bc the Idle Setting Procedure is overlooked." -- anonymous/reliable source deep in Ford territory (i.e. when someone adds horsepower OR a new motor)
You can try all you want to come up with a COLLABORATION OF MISINFORMATION........ [sm=laughat.gif] and [sm=rant.gif] all you want......
I suggest coming up with a response that DOESN'T QUOTE MY RESPONSES or ANYONE ELSES, that's NOT PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE, that's not taking my words OFFENSIVELY, , and that IS NOT MANIPULATIVE with words..... OR using my words to benefit yours = come up withe your own stuff......
CAN YOU DO THAT??? we'll see... [sm=icon_guiness.gif]
[sm=closed.gif][sm=hia.gif][sm=closed.gif]
IF were gonna talk about TECH kinds of things.... Let's discuss the creation of an 8-second TOMMY GUN....That still looks almost stock....?????
If anyone agrees with me = CLAP YOUR HANDS
04-04-2008, 11:06 PM
#158
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: louisiana
Posts: 2,763
RE: Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
well i cant read every page, i read enough as it is lol
i know its needs to just be in range, well if i have 1.3v's (using my Tweecer r/t) with it unplugged or plugged, what do i do to fix it? its goes all the way to 4.7v and the car will idle and run, but i had to open the tb a decent amount, and im pretty sure i need a new iac.
but how do i fix high voltage at idle?
i know its needs to just be in range, well if i have 1.3v's (using my Tweecer r/t) with it unplugged or plugged, what do i do to fix it? its goes all the way to 4.7v and the car will idle and run, but i had to open the tb a decent amount, and im pretty sure i need a new iac.
but how do i fix high voltage at idle?
04-04-2008, 11:30 PM
#160
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, Seattle
Posts: 551
RE: Probable Error in a 'Setting the TPS' thread
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
[sm=hia.gif] [sm=groupwave.gif] [sm=happybounce.gif]
ALL in ALL it'd be in your best interest to set your TPS as close to .99 as possible...
My car ran better and idled better when I corrected my TPS setting..
A "joe-shmo" mechanic would set it anywhere btwn .7-1.3 and would not care b/c the MAJORITY of the people taking their car there WOULDN"T KNOW the difference....BC THEY DON"T KNOW CARS..
It takes 5 MINUTES TOPS to set your TPS......or check it for that matter
[sm=hia.gif] [sm=groupwave.gif] [sm=happybounce.gif]
ALL in ALL it'd be in your best interest to set your TPS as close to .99 as possible...
My car ran better and idled better when I corrected my TPS setting..
A "joe-shmo" mechanic would set it anywhere btwn .7-1.3 and would not care b/c the MAJORITY of the people taking their car there WOULDN"T KNOW the difference....BC THEY DON"T KNOW CARS..
It takes 5 MINUTES TOPS to set your TPS......or check it for that matter
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
[:@]THE RIDICULOUSNESS OF THIS THREAD.... is were *ucking talking about a TPS VOLTAGE...... [:@]
This thread is only this long bc of my 3 or 4 pages of comments= which i regret b/c i'm preaching to deaf ears.
[:@]THE RIDICULOUSNESS OF THIS THREAD.... is were *ucking talking about a TPS VOLTAGE...... [:@]
This thread is only this long bc of my 3 or 4 pages of comments
= which i regret b/c i'm preaching to deaf ears.
Man up dude, let's have a tech discussion!!!
Come with some tech, or don't come at all!!!
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
The PROBLEM here is no matter HOW HARD you try to convince Joel/Jason.... they will provide you with "running around incircles" responses - and even PUT WORDS INTO YOUR MOUTH.... [sm=bs.gif]
The PROBLEM here is no matter HOW HARD you try to convince Joel/Jason.... they will provide you with "running around incircles" responses - and even PUT WORDS INTO YOUR MOUTH.... [sm=bs.gif]
If you can do this, I will apologize publicly.
Good luck!
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
I'm sorry but I only use CHILTON to figure out proper Torque Settings.....which Joel/Jason seem to love doing.....[sm=lol.gif]
I'm sorry but I only use CHILTON to figure out proper Torque Settings.....which Joel/Jason seem to love doing.....[sm=lol.gif]
You don't recall the Ford documents posted, which state the TPS in NON-adjustable????????
Short term memory is starting to fade already....
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
The car and its parts work together..... IF it was designed to be configured/aligned/assembled/set-up/run/function that way.... WOULDN"T YOU WANT IT TO BE SET-UP THAT WAY - AS CLOSE TO .99???
The car and its parts work together..... IF it was designed to be configured/aligned/assembled/set-up/run/function that way.... WOULDN"T YOU WANT IT TO BE SET-UP THAT WAY - AS CLOSE TO .99???
The Ford ecu was designed/coded to work with a certain range of TPS output values.
There is NO difference between .99v and 1.03v or .8v!!!
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
HERE"S YOUR NON-FORD TECH honeyyy:::: It's the quickest thing I could find - with the time I have in my busy life.
AND I QUOTE:::::::: "It is important to get to know the function and servicing of this sensor for a couple of reasons. As with any electro-mechanical moving part, they have been known to malfunction or ultimately just plain wear out. Besides that, they are often victims of improper service procedures. These procedures will either result in damage to the sensor, or impair its range of operation. In any event, a malfunctioning, damaged, or misadjusted TPS will cause a variety of driveablility symptoms, often accompanied by a check engine MIL (malfunction indicator light) displayed on the instrument panel."
"The TPS does just what its name implies; it provides input to the engine management computer regarding the position of the throttle. How the computer processes that data depends on other prevailing conditions: engine speed, load, vehicle speed, engine and ambient temperatures, and so on. This information from the TPS is especially critical for proper startup and idle, as well as smooth throttle response."[sm=violin.gif]
~~~http://www.automedia.com/Throttle_Po...cr20040701ts/1
HERE"S YOUR NON-FORD TECH honeyyy:::: It's the quickest thing I could find - with the time I have in my busy life.
AND I QUOTE:::::::: "It is important to get to know the function and servicing of this sensor for a couple of reasons. As with any electro-mechanical moving part, they have been known to malfunction or ultimately just plain wear out. Besides that, they are often victims of improper service procedures. These procedures will either result in damage to the sensor, or impair its range of operation. In any event, a malfunctioning, damaged, or misadjusted TPS will cause a variety of driveablility symptoms, often accompanied by a check engine MIL (malfunction indicator light) displayed on the instrument panel."
"The TPS does just what its name implies; it provides input to the engine management computer regarding the position of the throttle. How the computer processes that data depends on other prevailing conditions: engine speed, load, vehicle speed, engine and ambient temperatures, and so on. This information from the TPS is especially critical for proper startup and idle, as well as smooth throttle response."[sm=violin.gif]
~~~http://www.automedia.com/Throttle_Po...cr20040701ts/1
You're going to quote 'automedia.com' for justification of the .99v myth?
One, they don't state .99v anywhere in that crappy *** write-up.
Two, that is a GENERAL automotive site... NOT specific to the Ford EEC-IV.
Still,
This quote was rather revealing....
ORIGINAL: http://www.automedia.com/Throttle_Po...cr20040701ts/1
The potentiometer type of TPS is a variable resistor, effectively supplying a gradually increasing supply of voltage to the computer as the throttle is gradually opened. Usually the voltage operating range is from about one-half a volt at idle, to five volts at wide-open throttle. These sensors are usually not adjustable.
The potentiometer type of TPS is a variable resistor, effectively supplying a gradually increasing supply of voltage to the computer as the throttle is gradually opened. Usually the voltage operating range is from about one-half a volt at idle, to five volts at wide-open throttle. These sensors are usually not adjustable.
The Potentiometer type TPS is not usually adjustable, and typical idle output is ~ .6v
Every source you bring to the table is worthless....
By all means, keep trying though.... this is kinda fun [8D]
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
So by going in circles and over complicating things - were forced to make it seem like Joel/Jason ARE SMARTER than the engineers themselves (with degrees and years of expertise), WHO designed - developed AND understood it's reasoning far better than anyone. YEARS OF TESTING TOO....... DID you know that 60% (if not more) of engineer majors in college drop out (i.e. to Business major) bc its too tough and difficult???
Who's word you gonna take??? JOEL/JASONS or FORD's????
The above link is an Idle Setting Procedure sent to me by FORD themselves - If you want your own copy CALL UP FORD and ask for TECH...
That's as concrete as it gets - and I WON'T be DISCREDITED a second time OR be told by JOEL/JASON that my above TECH is FLAWED!!!! [sm=forgetit.gif]
So by going in circles and over complicating things - were forced to make it seem like Joel/Jason ARE SMARTER than the engineers themselves (with degrees and years of expertise), WHO designed - developed AND understood it's reasoning far better than anyone. YEARS OF TESTING TOO....... DID you know that 60% (if not more) of engineer majors in college drop out (i.e. to Business major) bc its too tough and difficult???
Who's word you gonna take??? JOEL/JASONS or FORD's????
The above link is an Idle Setting Procedure sent to me by FORD themselves - If you want your own copy CALL UP FORD and ask for TECH...
That's as concrete as it gets - and I WON'T be DISCREDITED a second time OR be told by JOEL/JASON that my above TECH is FLAWED!!!! [sm=forgetit.gif]
2. I told you not to link to that document on my site again. Thanks to your immature and childish mis-quoting, I have pulled that 'Ford Idle Setting Procedure' from my site. I will not be part of spreading mis-information, and I will not follow you around the internet to make sure you are using that link responsibly.
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
The point is - if you give a BALLPARK figure to someone (i.e. .8-1.1) and they set it somewhere on the edge - their more than LIKELY to fall out of the range sooner = and a more LIKELYHOOD of driving around with a improperly RESPONSIVE car... so the CLOSER you are to .99... the BETTER OFF YOU'LL be....
THE PROBLEM is that IF you give out a ballpark range... a misaligned TPS will be more common = widespread like a virus to the already bad-idling-mustang-world
The point is - if you give a BALLPARK figure to someone (i.e. .8-1.1) and they set it somewhere on the edge - their more than LIKELY to fall out of the range sooner = and a more LIKELYHOOD of driving around with a improperly RESPONSIVE car... so the CLOSER you are to .99... the BETTER OFF YOU'LL be....
THE PROBLEM is that IF you give out a ballpark range... a misaligned TPS will be more common = widespread like a virus to the already bad-idling-mustang-world
Unless there is something wrong with the rest of the system, the TPS will not magically fall out of range.
Go back and check the math for yourself in post #149
This has already been covered........
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
I have a 1990 Mustang with 3,000miles on it - BRAND NEW... the car was running/throttling/idling/surging funny and when I ADJUSTED my TPS the CAR RAN BETTER ALL AROUND.... At .6 or 1.3 your car won't RESPOND as best as it can or should....
I have a 1990 Mustang with 3,000miles on it - BRAND NEW... the car was running/throttling/idling/surging funny and when I ADJUSTED my TPS the CAR RAN BETTER ALL AROUND.... At .6 or 1.3 your car won't RESPOND as best as it can or should....
Remember??????
ORIGINAL: cholericfc
"90% of the mustangs out there idle like crap bc the Idle Setting Procedure is overlooked." -- anonymous/reliable source deep in Ford territory (i.e. when someone adds horsepower OR a new motor)
"90% of the mustangs out there idle like crap bc the Idle Setting Procedure is overlooked." -- anonymous/reliable source deep in Ford territory (i.e. when someone adds horsepower OR a new motor)
Second hand information would not hold in court, why would you think it would hold here????
[quote]ORIGINAL: cholericfc
You can try all you want to come up with a COLLABORATION OF MISINFORMATION........ [sm=laughat.gif] and [sm=rant.gif] all you want......
I suggest coming up with a response that DOESN'T QUOTE MY RESPONSES or ANYONE ELSES, that's NOT PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE, that's n