which one
04-23-2005, 05:30 PM
#11
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Southern Kentucky
Posts: 1,487
RE: which one
ORIGINAL: 89stanglx22
Hey watsup I am planing to put 500 hp in my 89 mustang 5.0 5 speed and i want to keep it street leagal and i wondering what would be better a supercharger or twin turbos. And if you can give me any tips on trans,clutch....etc it would be very helpful. B-Ry
Hey watsup I am planing to put 500 hp in my 89 mustang 5.0 5 speed and i want to keep it street leagal and i wondering what would be better a supercharger or twin turbos. And if you can give me any tips on trans,clutch....etc it would be very helpful. B-Ry
04-23-2005, 05:39 PM
#12
1st Gear Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: IN
Posts: 121
RE: which one
You better be looking at the frame also. I would recommend atleast a really good set of subframe connectors, probably through the floor. Maybe even a cage. The TQ boxes need to be reinforced. You might as well plan on replacing everything except for the body and interior.
04-23-2005, 05:49 PM
#13
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,802
RE: which one
turbochargers make larger torque and horsepower numbers are higher RPM. Superchargers, being belt driven and always wound up, never need to wait for the turbo compressors do begin to rotate, but turbo compressors in the end rotate much faster than a supercahrger. much much faster than a superchargers hence the greater boost capabilities and power output of the turbo.
there are also different versions of belt driven compressors.
centrifugal, negative displacement superchargers that use an impellar just like a turbocharger to force air into the engine. centris being impellars and also belt driven still build boost according to RPM.
Twin screw, positive displacement. air compression takes place in the housing and boost is always at your fingertips. big companies like kenne bell make these and IMO are what street monsters need.
Turbocharging, retarded amounts of power can be made with turbos. they make power relatively higher in the RPM band and a very narrow power band at that. usually good for track cars that have the ability to launch at high RPMs. fine for the street too, but if youve ever seen the Ackbar VS cobra vid youll notice how the cobra just walks away from ackbar in the first 5 or 6 seconds of the race. only after the turbo is spooled up does ackbar pass the cobra. dont forget ackbars car is also completely built with aftermarket everything, people say that TT dont have turbo lag. that is completely untrue, all turbos have lag. depending on what SIZE AR AND TURBINE HOUSING you have determines the lag. ALSO how much exhaust are you making determines the lag. people need to do some reading up on turbos. a properly matched turbo on a 5.0 still lags, ive seen it with my own eyes.
as far as LAG goes, there is no comparison between the twin screw and turbo. Lag is a relative term, and im comparing it to a kenne bell where lag is non-existant.
anyway, i hope this helped. each is great but i just wanted you to get the right information.
there are also different versions of belt driven compressors.
centrifugal, negative displacement superchargers that use an impellar just like a turbocharger to force air into the engine. centris being impellars and also belt driven still build boost according to RPM.
Twin screw, positive displacement. air compression takes place in the housing and boost is always at your fingertips. big companies like kenne bell make these and IMO are what street monsters need.
Turbocharging, retarded amounts of power can be made with turbos. they make power relatively higher in the RPM band and a very narrow power band at that. usually good for track cars that have the ability to launch at high RPMs. fine for the street too, but if youve ever seen the Ackbar VS cobra vid youll notice how the cobra just walks away from ackbar in the first 5 or 6 seconds of the race. only after the turbo is spooled up does ackbar pass the cobra. dont forget ackbars car is also completely built with aftermarket everything, people say that TT dont have turbo lag. that is completely untrue, all turbos have lag. depending on what SIZE AR AND TURBINE HOUSING you have determines the lag. ALSO how much exhaust are you making determines the lag. people need to do some reading up on turbos. a properly matched turbo on a 5.0 still lags, ive seen it with my own eyes.
as far as LAG goes, there is no comparison between the twin screw and turbo. Lag is a relative term, and im comparing it to a kenne bell where lag is non-existant.
anyway, i hope this helped. each is great but i just wanted you to get the right information.
04-24-2005, 10:52 AM
#14
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 3,451
RE: which one
ORIGINAL: 89stanglx22
Hey wats up. Yes I am planning to spend 10k on this and I am going to put heads,intake,cam,piston....etc. So yea if you could send me that parts list that would help alot. I have heard that a twin turbo setup would be just as good as a supercharger. I was planing to go with a s/c until i went to a performance shop and a guy"turbos are free hp". And with two turbos you don't get turbo lag. And with all that power do i need a new block or just a main girdle. Send me an email at www.lakarray@eclipse.net Thanks
Hey wats up. Yes I am planning to spend 10k on this and I am going to put heads,intake,cam,piston....etc. So yea if you could send me that parts list that would help alot. I have heard that a twin turbo setup would be just as good as a supercharger. I was planing to go with a s/c until i went to a performance shop and a guy"turbos are free hp". And with two turbos you don't get turbo lag. And with all that power do i need a new block or just a main girdle. Send me an email at www.lakarray@eclipse.net Thanks
BTW, turbochargers are not free power. You need exhaust power to push the turbine, if it were free power there would be no power taken away from the engine when you bolt one on, but putting a fan in the way of the exhaust will rob a little power.
ORIGINAL: Pure5.0
They both increase HP and TQ but a turbo creates better TQ numbers at lower RPM and Supercharger creates better HP numbers at higher RPM.
Superchargers take time to wind up, so they are only really fully functional at higher RPM.
Think of this. TQ is a bigger factor than HP when towing...what do semis and deisel trucks usually have....turbos.
You will still get some turbo lag from two turbos, but probably not to the point where you would notice or worry about it.
Nice project you got going. Make sure you take pictures and post them up. Also for your reference, since you are starting from stock (I think)
They both increase HP and TQ but a turbo creates better TQ numbers at lower RPM and Supercharger creates better HP numbers at higher RPM.
Superchargers take time to wind up, so they are only really fully functional at higher RPM.
Think of this. TQ is a bigger factor than HP when towing...what do semis and deisel trucks usually have....turbos.
You will still get some turbo lag from two turbos, but probably not to the point where you would notice or worry about it.
Nice project you got going. Make sure you take pictures and post them up. Also for your reference, since you are starting from stock (I think)
ORIGINAL: 94Cbra
Do what? You really need to do some research on forced induction my friend... First off diesel trucks have turbos because they dont have parasitic loss and make gobs of power. The reason they make so much low end torque is because they are DIESEL engines. A 7.3L Power stroke can flow an unpresidented ammout of air compared to our little 281's and 302's. With that massive ammount of airflow they can spool up a large turbo quickly. Those engines/turbos are engineered and designed to operate at the engine speeds they do. Its a good example of fitting the proper equipment with the proper application to achieve a desired result. Casper98GT is a very knowledgable Ford Tech and could explain this further.
As for Forced Induction 101, try these :
Turbo Vs. S/C - http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=19
S/C 101 - http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=15
Centrifugals 101 - http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=21
Roots Vs. Cent Vs. Screw - http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5
Do what? You really need to do some research on forced induction my friend... First off diesel trucks have turbos because they dont have parasitic loss and make gobs of power. The reason they make so much low end torque is because they are DIESEL engines. A 7.3L Power stroke can flow an unpresidented ammout of air compared to our little 281's and 302's. With that massive ammount of airflow they can spool up a large turbo quickly. Those engines/turbos are engineered and designed to operate at the engine speeds they do. Its a good example of fitting the proper equipment with the proper application to achieve a desired result. Casper98GT is a very knowledgable Ford Tech and could explain this further.
As for Forced Induction 101, try these :
Turbo Vs. S/C - http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=19
S/C 101 - http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=15
Centrifugals 101 - http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=21
Roots Vs. Cent Vs. Screw - http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5
When they decide to make VATN turbochargers widely available superchargers are going to be anihalated in low-high rpm range power.
04-24-2005, 10:58 AM
#15
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 3,451
RE: which one
ORIGINAL: Dbeck002
turbochargers make larger torque and horsepower numbers are higher RPM. Superchargers, being belt driven and always wound up, never need to wait for the turbo compressors do begin to rotate, but turbo compressors in the end rotate much faster than a supercahrger. much much faster than a superchargers hence the greater boost capabilities and power output of the turbo.
there are also different versions of belt driven compressors.
centrifugal, negative displacement superchargers that use an impellar just like a turbocharger to force air into the engine. centris being impellars and also belt driven still build boost according to RPM.
Twin screw, positive displacement. air compression takes place in the housing and boost is always at your fingertips. big companies like kenne bell make these and IMO are what street monsters need.
Turbocharging, retarded amounts of power can be made with turbos. they make power relatively higher in the RPM band and a very narrow power band at that. usually good for track cars that have the ability to launch at high RPMs. fine for the street too, but if youve ever seen the Ackbar VS cobra vid youll notice how the cobra just walks away from ackbar in the first 5 or 6 seconds of the race. only after the turbo is spooled up does ackbar pass the cobra. dont forget ackbars car is also completely built with aftermarket everything, people say that TT dont have turbo lag. that is completely untrue, all turbos have lag. depending on what SIZE AR AND TURBINE HOUSING you have determines the lag. ALSO how much exhaust are you making determines the lag. people need to do some reading up on turbos. a properly matched turbo on a 5.0 still lags, ive seen it with my own eyes.
as far as LAG goes, there is no comparison between the twin screw and turbo. Lag is a relative term, and im comparing it to a kenne bell where lag is non-existant.
anyway, i hope this helped. each is great but i just wanted you to get the right information.
turbochargers make larger torque and horsepower numbers are higher RPM. Superchargers, being belt driven and always wound up, never need to wait for the turbo compressors do begin to rotate, but turbo compressors in the end rotate much faster than a supercahrger. much much faster than a superchargers hence the greater boost capabilities and power output of the turbo.
there are also different versions of belt driven compressors.
centrifugal, negative displacement superchargers that use an impellar just like a turbocharger to force air into the engine. centris being impellars and also belt driven still build boost according to RPM.
Twin screw, positive displacement. air compression takes place in the housing and boost is always at your fingertips. big companies like kenne bell make these and IMO are what street monsters need.
Turbocharging, retarded amounts of power can be made with turbos. they make power relatively higher in the RPM band and a very narrow power band at that. usually good for track cars that have the ability to launch at high RPMs. fine for the street too, but if youve ever seen the Ackbar VS cobra vid youll notice how the cobra just walks away from ackbar in the first 5 or 6 seconds of the race. only after the turbo is spooled up does ackbar pass the cobra. dont forget ackbars car is also completely built with aftermarket everything, people say that TT dont have turbo lag. that is completely untrue, all turbos have lag. depending on what SIZE AR AND TURBINE HOUSING you have determines the lag. ALSO how much exhaust are you making determines the lag. people need to do some reading up on turbos. a properly matched turbo on a 5.0 still lags, ive seen it with my own eyes.
as far as LAG goes, there is no comparison between the twin screw and turbo. Lag is a relative term, and im comparing it to a kenne bell where lag is non-existant.
anyway, i hope this helped. each is great but i just wanted you to get the right information.
04-24-2005, 11:11 AM
#16
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 11,394
RE: which one
the bigger the turbo the more lag you have that's why most very high hp car now use nitrous down low then use it as a cooler. either a turbo or S/C are very reliable but when you go twin tb you'll have a problem..if anything remember this, your package is only as good as it's platform....forged internal are a must...but the car's suppension must be on par with the engine when your in the 500hp zone...it's no fun in spinning the tires at 50 mph and losing to a slower car........keeping your psi under 15 for either will mean reliability. so what need to happen now is a plan for all of it to work...because 500 hp with no power adder isn't very streey friendly. also you'll need a computer adder (PMS) as well as a A/F meter to keep the engine from an early death
04-24-2005, 02:20 PM
#17
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 4,813
RE: which one
ORIGINAL: FoxGT
BTW, turbochargers are not free power. You need exhaust power to push the turbine, if it were free power there would be no power taken away from the engine when you bolt one on, but putting a fan in the way of the exhaust will rob a little power.
BTW, turbochargers are not free power. You need exhaust power to push the turbine, if it were free power there would be no power taken away from the engine when you bolt one on, but putting a fan in the way of the exhaust will rob a little power.
All internal combustion engines convert the heat energy of the fuel being burned into mechanical energy, i.e. torque, at the crankshaft. Turbocharged diesel engines are much more thermally efficient compared to gasoline fueled ones because they recover more total energy from the fuel burned and do so at a lower engine rpm.
04-26-2005, 11:18 PM
#18
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 39
RE: which one
alright I want to have this car do really good at the strip and still drive well I am only racing at the strip nothing else so if i but in a s/c will i be able to beat a twin turbo and if so what s/c will get there Thanks alot for all your help b ry