Turbo?
07-24-2010, 08:46 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stationed in Germany
Posts: 97
Turbo?
New to the Mustang world, and i'm looking into a new 2011 GT, but I am not the biggest fan of blowers. I'm more of a Turbo guy...say what you want, there more efficient, and put less stress on the engine.
Just wondering if there is any common options, or if anything is in the works?
Just wondering if there is any common options, or if anything is in the works?
07-24-2010, 10:47 AM
#3
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 627
UGH! PEOPLE! STOP TALKING ABOUT THE CR!
The engine has Ti-VCT, which means the intake valves can be left open until after the compression ratio has begun, which gives a MUCH lower dynamic compression ratio - in the neighborhood of 8-9:1. So the compression ratio is NOT AN ISSUE for forced induction!
Like, every other thread I have to tell people this. How do people still not know?
The engine has Ti-VCT, which means the intake valves can be left open until after the compression ratio has begun, which gives a MUCH lower dynamic compression ratio - in the neighborhood of 8-9:1. So the compression ratio is NOT AN ISSUE for forced induction!
Like, every other thread I have to tell people this. How do people still not know?
07-24-2010, 11:31 AM
#4
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 645
UGH! PEOPLE! STOP TALKING ABOUT THE CR!
The engine has Ti-VCT, which means the intake valves can be left open until after the compression ratio has begun, which gives a MUCH lower dynamic compression ratio - in the neighborhood of 8-9:1. So the compression ratio is NOT AN ISSUE for forced induction!
Like, every other thread I have to tell people this. How do people still not know?
The engine has Ti-VCT, which means the intake valves can be left open until after the compression ratio has begun, which gives a MUCH lower dynamic compression ratio - in the neighborhood of 8-9:1. So the compression ratio is NOT AN ISSUE for forced induction!
Like, every other thread I have to tell people this. How do people still not know?
No offense I see you're offended already but this makes no sense.
Why? because you make hp by the amount of air and gas and the amount it is compressed. Leaving the valve open makes less compression but also makes less hp. So you are just dumping raw gas out the exhaust and that is not the point of putting on a turbo. Not only that if you're after hp you would probably disable the VCT like many people already do on the 3 valve cars.
All that said the compression ration really is not a problem. You simple don't apply more boost than the engine can safely take. Whether you boost 5 lbs into an 11 to 1 car or 10 lbs into a 8 to 1 car. The final stress on the motor components determines how much hp you make. In the old days of poor fuel metering it was safer and easier to run more boost and lower compression these days with modern fuel injection there isn't any reason not to run higher compression engines to start out with. It all depends on what hp the engine parts can take.
07-27-2010, 04:05 PM
#5
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Well from my understanding of MIVEC on Mitsu engines like the last version of the 4g63T or the 4B11T. (Uses oil pressure variance between two chambers on the cam gears to advance or retard the valve timing.) I am assuming the Ford V8 does it the same way since I am also assuming like all V8's it uses timing chains, and in it's DOHC valve train layout I don't see any other good way to do it.
That said and the fact that the 2nd guy doesn't seem to fully understand valve overlap completely. Or the fact that you make more power by burning more fuel under the right conditions. To do this one key thing you need is more air, so throwing on turbos and then limiting yourself to just a few lb's of boost is stupid and a waste of time and money IMO. If you going to do it you should be vastly trying to increase the amount of air your shoving down the engines throat. Besides this X amount of power made with a turbo setup will put less stress on the same engine making the same power with a blower. So i'm going out on a limb here and guessing neither of you really know what your talking about. If I am wrong then, please explain why and I will apologize.
I was just wondering if any of the big wigs (name brand companies) were developing a turbo kit. I ask this verses piecing together something myself because the larger companies do a lot of testing besides just performance. Like fit, finish, durability, etc. And on a new car I don't really want to have to learn the hard way, or repurchase items because I was unhappy with the way something fit, sat, looked, functioned etc.
Without learning more about this new 5.0 I honestly don't know enough about it to comment on the compression ratio being an issue. In my experience however with performance engines, without race gas or a **** load of meth injection. Yes theres no way you could push more than a few pounds of boost with 11:1 CR. And if thats the case, then big deal. pull the engine put some real rods in it w/tri metal bearings, and 8.5:1 CR pistons like some good Mahle's and call it a day. If you really want to get geeky about it, if someone makes sodium filled exhaust valves that would be a nice edition as well. Luckily it already comes with oil jets so thats a major plus and a hint to me Ford is already thinking of throwing some type of forced induction on to it. (the block anyway, not this specific engine)
BTW to the guy above me. High RPM adds WAY more stress to an engine than high cyl pressures. (Way more likely to break a rod etc.) High cyl pressures are just more likely to lift the head on most engines and blow a HG. Obviously I can't speak for all but the ones I have experience with but thats what I am betting tends to happen with 80% of them anyway.
Unless someone can really answer my question or REALLY knows what there talking about, in the area of throwing some turbos on this thing, i'd rather they didn't reply. Don't mean to step on any toes, but i'm NOT new to turbo charging. Biggest issue I think i'm going to have here is relating fuel injectors cc vs lb lol. One last question, Is the air flow sensor on the new 5.0 a hot wire type, karman or hell for all I know it could be SD. I haven't came across this yet.
That said and the fact that the 2nd guy doesn't seem to fully understand valve overlap completely. Or the fact that you make more power by burning more fuel under the right conditions. To do this one key thing you need is more air, so throwing on turbos and then limiting yourself to just a few lb's of boost is stupid and a waste of time and money IMO. If you going to do it you should be vastly trying to increase the amount of air your shoving down the engines throat. Besides this X amount of power made with a turbo setup will put less stress on the same engine making the same power with a blower. So i'm going out on a limb here and guessing neither of you really know what your talking about. If I am wrong then, please explain why and I will apologize.
I was just wondering if any of the big wigs (name brand companies) were developing a turbo kit. I ask this verses piecing together something myself because the larger companies do a lot of testing besides just performance. Like fit, finish, durability, etc. And on a new car I don't really want to have to learn the hard way, or repurchase items because I was unhappy with the way something fit, sat, looked, functioned etc.
Without learning more about this new 5.0 I honestly don't know enough about it to comment on the compression ratio being an issue. In my experience however with performance engines, without race gas or a **** load of meth injection. Yes theres no way you could push more than a few pounds of boost with 11:1 CR. And if thats the case, then big deal. pull the engine put some real rods in it w/tri metal bearings, and 8.5:1 CR pistons like some good Mahle's and call it a day. If you really want to get geeky about it, if someone makes sodium filled exhaust valves that would be a nice edition as well. Luckily it already comes with oil jets so thats a major plus and a hint to me Ford is already thinking of throwing some type of forced induction on to it. (the block anyway, not this specific engine)
BTW to the guy above me. High RPM adds WAY more stress to an engine than high cyl pressures. (Way more likely to break a rod etc.) High cyl pressures are just more likely to lift the head on most engines and blow a HG. Obviously I can't speak for all but the ones I have experience with but thats what I am betting tends to happen with 80% of them anyway.
Unless someone can really answer my question or REALLY knows what there talking about, in the area of throwing some turbos on this thing, i'd rather they didn't reply. Don't mean to step on any toes, but i'm NOT new to turbo charging. Biggest issue I think i'm going to have here is relating fuel injectors cc vs lb lol. One last question, Is the air flow sensor on the new 5.0 a hot wire type, karman or hell for all I know it could be SD. I haven't came across this yet.
Last edited by Ripper Alpha; 07-27-2010 at 04:19 PM.
07-27-2010, 04:46 PM
#8
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 630
UGH! PEOPLE! STOP TALKING ABOUT THE CR!
The engine has Ti-VCT, which means the intake valves can be left open until after the compression ratio has begun, which gives a MUCH lower dynamic compression ratio - in the neighborhood of 8-9:1. So the compression ratio is NOT AN ISSUE for forced induction!
Like, every other thread I have to tell people this. How do people still not know?
The engine has Ti-VCT, which means the intake valves can be left open until after the compression ratio has begun, which gives a MUCH lower dynamic compression ratio - in the neighborhood of 8-9:1. So the compression ratio is NOT AN ISSUE for forced induction!
Like, every other thread I have to tell people this. How do people still not know?
There is a reason Ford, the people who actually do the O.E. calibration and have total control over the ECU are still working with Ford Racing on their 2.3L kit and have not released it to the public yet, and theres also a reason its only going to be a low psi kit...
Even tuners in the aftermarket are just now beginning to unlock some of the secrets in the ECU on how things work. Ford has been at it a lot longer than that with their supercharger kit and they are the people who write the code for it directly!
Its not as easy as you make it sound. Ti-VCT is not the miracle engine cure that fixes everything. Plus there are other things besides compression you have to worry about to get the engine to stay together.
Last edited by SteedaGus; 07-27-2010 at 04:48 PM.
07-27-2010, 05:00 PM
#9
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 630
High cyl pressures are just more likely to lift the head on most engines and blow a HG
I would answer more but dont have time right now, got parts to get out the door.
I sent you a PM with some info.....
Last edited by SteedaGus; 07-27-2010 at 05:03 PM.
07-27-2010, 10:26 PM
#10
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 645
....
BTW to the guy above me. High RPM adds WAY more stress to an engine than high cyl pressures. (Way more likely to break a rod etc.) High cyl pressures are just more likely to lift the head on most engines and blow a HG. Obviously I can't speak for all but the ones I have experience with but thats what I am betting tends to happen with 80% of them anyway.
....
BTW to the guy above me. High RPM adds WAY more stress to an engine than high cyl pressures. (Way more likely to break a rod etc.) High cyl pressures are just more likely to lift the head on most engines and blow a HG. Obviously I can't speak for all but the ones I have experience with but thats what I am betting tends to happen with 80% of them anyway.
....
Duh did I even mention RPM?
I turbo charged this in 1980
I turbo charged this a few years later made 450hp from 2 liters. Programed the fuel injection from a terminal on my lap.
