Cold air intakes ?
09-06-2010, 03:14 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Delaware
Posts: 193
Cold air intakes ?
Looking at all of the CAI's on line and see what I think might be issues with them all.
#1
None of them actually seal the intake from the engine compartment like the stock intake does.
Am I "Seeing" too much into it?
#2
From what I read most make their power gain claims 87 vs 93 octane, meaning they give before numbers with 87 and after with 93.
If this is the case should I deduct the 10-12 horses that Ford says is the difference?
#3
Some wont even make a power gain claim without a "Tune" and the above mentioned 87 vs 93.
For two to seven hundred plus dollars (With Tune) it seems like there may be better things to spend money on for better results.
I can understand the tune making a larger difference based what the factory has to do because of the Feds.
#1
None of them actually seal the intake from the engine compartment like the stock intake does.
Am I "Seeing" too much into it?
#2
From what I read most make their power gain claims 87 vs 93 octane, meaning they give before numbers with 87 and after with 93.
If this is the case should I deduct the 10-12 horses that Ford says is the difference?
#3
Some wont even make a power gain claim without a "Tune" and the above mentioned 87 vs 93.
For two to seven hundred plus dollars (With Tune) it seems like there may be better things to spend money on for better results.
I can understand the tune making a larger difference based what the factory has to do because of the Feds.
09-12-2010, 10:39 AM
#2
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stationed in Germany
Posts: 97
Good luck, I have been causally looking for something besides these BS tunes people sell. Is it so much to ask for a gawh damn device that lets me change the ECU's values to what the **** I want!? These people selling these predetermined "tunes" can go shove them where the sun don't shine imo. Thats **** for num nuts that can barely change there ****ing oil.
I want the ability to change the timing, fuel and air flow maps to whatever I want damn it... /rant.
That said, I totally agree with the OP. I think most peoples "gain" is from the new "tune" vs the intake. With that said OP I don't know how good your fabricating skills are, but you know what some say. "If you want it done right, you got to do it yourself". Look around online and you can find vendors that sell high temp sheets of plastic in various thickness's. sheet metal etc. etc. as well. You can make your own sealed air box for less than you can buy one for. Now that said, the better you make it, the more it will cost of course. But manderal bent piece of aluminum pipe (that may need some cutting and tig welding) to shape how you want. And plastic will NOT cost you $700 Just find a good shop that can tig weld and buy the supplies and do it your self. I priced the airbox and intake I am building for my DSM around $450. And it's going to seriously kick *** with a removable lexan window up top so I still have easy access to the air filer, and the ability to see if any leaves get sucked up into the airbox or if the filter needs a cleaning. All sealed, and all WAY better flowing than the stock ****. And it only lets cold air in from the fender well....which is a high pressure zone at speed BTW
Again DIY do it right do it cheaper. **** BS vendors.
I want the ability to change the timing, fuel and air flow maps to whatever I want damn it... /rant.
That said, I totally agree with the OP. I think most peoples "gain" is from the new "tune" vs the intake. With that said OP I don't know how good your fabricating skills are, but you know what some say. "If you want it done right, you got to do it yourself". Look around online and you can find vendors that sell high temp sheets of plastic in various thickness's. sheet metal etc. etc. as well. You can make your own sealed air box for less than you can buy one for. Now that said, the better you make it, the more it will cost of course. But manderal bent piece of aluminum pipe (that may need some cutting and tig welding) to shape how you want. And plastic will NOT cost you $700 Just find a good shop that can tig weld and buy the supplies and do it your self. I priced the airbox and intake I am building for my DSM around $450. And it's going to seriously kick *** with a removable lexan window up top so I still have easy access to the air filer, and the ability to see if any leaves get sucked up into the airbox or if the filter needs a cleaning. All sealed, and all WAY better flowing than the stock ****. And it only lets cold air in from the fender well....which is a high pressure zone at speed BTW
Again DIY do it right do it cheaper. **** BS vendors.
Last edited by Ripper Alpha; 09-12-2010 at 10:42 AM.
09-12-2010, 04:56 PM
#4
Looking at all of the CAI's on line and see what I think might be issues with them all.
#1
None of them actually seal the intake from the engine compartment like the stock intake does.
Am I "Seeing" too much into it?
#2
From what I read most make their power gain claims 87 vs 93 octane, meaning they give before numbers with 87 and after with 93.
If this is the case should I deduct the 10-12 horses that Ford says is the difference?
#3
Some wont even make a power gain claim without a "Tune" and the above mentioned 87 vs 93.
For two to seven hundred plus dollars (With Tune) it seems like there may be better things to spend money on for better results.
I can understand the tune making a larger difference based what the factory has to do because of the Feds.
#1
None of them actually seal the intake from the engine compartment like the stock intake does.
Am I "Seeing" too much into it?
#2
From what I read most make their power gain claims 87 vs 93 octane, meaning they give before numbers with 87 and after with 93.
If this is the case should I deduct the 10-12 horses that Ford says is the difference?
#3
Some wont even make a power gain claim without a "Tune" and the above mentioned 87 vs 93.
For two to seven hundred plus dollars (With Tune) it seems like there may be better things to spend money on for better results.
I can understand the tune making a larger difference based what the factory has to do because of the Feds.
1) The CAI box should be sealed. I can only guess that the ones sold are not sealed because the vendors are too cheap to spend a tiny bit more to seal them.
2) Yes, the baseline is done on 87 octane, and then the test with the new crap on is done with 93 octaine. So the power gains give of "Up to..." is always used.
I HATE that phrase, "Up to..." becuase I found that too many times, that phrase is used to sell snake oil.
3) CAI do not give significat HP gains. Maybe 5 crank HP more at most?
So yes, it is the TUNE that comes in the kit that gives you the real power gains.
You might as well just buy a 93 octane tune, save yourself up to $200 for the additional BS crap, and instal the tune and get the power gains without a single bolt-on!
These are just my thoughts, so do not take my word as gospel.
09-12-2010, 05:04 PM
#5
...Is it so much to ask for a gawh damn device that lets me change the ECU's values to what the **** I want!? These people selling these predetermined "tunes" can go shove them where the sun don't shine imo. Thats **** for num nuts that can barely change there ****ing oil.
I want the ability to change the timing, fuel and air flow maps to whatever I want damn it... /rant.
I want the ability to change the timing, fuel and air flow maps to whatever I want damn it... /rant.
I want to know the variables manipulated and the tables in the ECU they are controlled in.
I want to know how to balance all these variables to work in concert together and how to mix and match the tables so that in unison, they give some serious power increase, without a single bolt-on!
Then, if a bolt-on is added and one or more of the variabls is changed, I want to know how to redo which variables and to manipulate their respective tables to again have a tune that has all these remapped tables working together in unison to exploit the added upgrade.
No doubt, to fully be able to do this kind of thing, you will need to do some serious engineering calculations, or you would have to have had years of actual experience doing this to know inherantly what works without doing the calculations.
But if this information were to be actually written and attempted to be put in car mags, I am sure the readers will eventually get it. Even if they will not know a lick of what to do with it when they first read all that crap.
I hate how everyone assumes we car fans are stupid and will not have any clues on tuning and how they therefore do not even dare to attept to try to describe tuning variables.
09-13-2010, 12:01 PM
#6
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stationed in Germany
Posts: 97
Well no offence but with a target audience as vast as the Mustang crowed. There are a lot more retards, thats not to say theres not some very smart people too, but with smaller more dated cars the groups there tends to be much more serious/pure car enthusiasts vs some guy who bought a Mustang because it's "cool" and knows nothing about cars. Thats why vendors are putting out these "cookie cutter tunes" like you said. Theres easy money in them. It takes much more time to make a product like we would like to see, and less money to be made there (likely anyway since the target audience would be smaller) Then again who knows, if they made such a product and as user friendly as say DSMLink/ECULink, which is HUGELY successful in the DSM world. It might make a vendor a lot of money.
That being said, it sure is funny how most of the large import car groups (Import does NOT = Honda BTW!!!) have things like this that allow you to directly change the factory ECU's settings/tables.
That being said, it sure is funny how most of the large import car groups (Import does NOT = Honda BTW!!!) have things like this that allow you to directly change the factory ECU's settings/tables.
Last edited by Ripper Alpha; 09-13-2010 at 12:08 PM.
09-13-2010, 10:02 PM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Delaware
Posts: 193
I traded my 2006 Cobalt SS/SC for my 2011 Mustang GT.
With the Cobalt you could use tune software from "HP Tuners" to make your own tune for your Cobalt.
I just went the GM stage 2 route for mine though.
I dont know if HP Tuners or anyone else makes the software to do your own tune for a Mustang though.
Me? I can rebuild the most torn up airplane in the world, but no way am I screwing with the engine from my car.
With the Cobalt you could use tune software from "HP Tuners" to make your own tune for your Cobalt.
I just went the GM stage 2 route for mine though.
I dont know if HP Tuners or anyone else makes the software to do your own tune for a Mustang though.
Me? I can rebuild the most torn up airplane in the world, but no way am I screwing with the engine from my car.
09-14-2010, 02:49 PM
#9
6th Gear Member
Only if you're a wuss (not saying that YOU are) and you allow the dealership to intimidate and beat you into submission. Legally, they would have to prove that the aftermarket part caused the problem that your looking to get warranty work done for. Some dealerships are real azzes about it; other, like mine, don't give it a second glance and will take care of you.
09-14-2010, 02:57 PM
#10
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 380
While Nuke is correct, the issue to consider is that, should it go to court, the judge is very unlikely to rule in your favor.
In the eyes of someone who has absolutely no automotive knowledge, or is only allowed to rule based on facts presented, a "well-informed" engineer employed by an automotive manufacturer is probably always going to win.
I know there was a case many years ago, where an engine had blown up with a K&N filter. This actually did go to court, where the auto engineer "scientifically proved" that the swirling caused by the cone filter caused the engine to go lean and detonate.
Now, anyone with half a brain knows that is absolutely impossible, not to mention an out right lie..but, unfortunately, it's engineer vs. you (and your lawyer - who unfortunately isn't an automotive engineer!)
I'm not trying to scare you out of modifying your car, and believe me, most companies would rather not wasted the thousands and thousands of dollars in legal fees just to get out of a repair. But you should have all of the facts beforehand, and make your decision based on them. If Ford decides not to warranty you, and they want to make an example out of you, you honestly can't win.
In the eyes of someone who has absolutely no automotive knowledge, or is only allowed to rule based on facts presented, a "well-informed" engineer employed by an automotive manufacturer is probably always going to win.
I know there was a case many years ago, where an engine had blown up with a K&N filter. This actually did go to court, where the auto engineer "scientifically proved" that the swirling caused by the cone filter caused the engine to go lean and detonate.
Now, anyone with half a brain knows that is absolutely impossible, not to mention an out right lie..but, unfortunately, it's engineer vs. you (and your lawyer - who unfortunately isn't an automotive engineer!)
I'm not trying to scare you out of modifying your car, and believe me, most companies would rather not wasted the thousands and thousands of dollars in legal fees just to get out of a repair. But you should have all of the facts beforehand, and make your decision based on them. If Ford decides not to warranty you, and they want to make an example out of you, you honestly can't win.