Sleeper_GT

I've been reading what's been going on here and have had time to think. Right, wrong, or indifferent this is my opinion. I'm putting this out in the open so everyone knows where I stand.

I'm really not sure what you do Hunter or how much you are on this forum. There's no way for me to know. What I do know is that you think you are being "Presidential" by posting in here every-now-and-then and trying to schedule an event here and there. Well check this out bud, that's called being a "Moderator" not a "President". If you think you are one of the "boys" then start BS'ing with us in here and put on your body armor. We all have thick skin here. You should expect to receive some flack as the "President" and having no presence on the forum. If I'm not mistaken the only posts I've really seen from you has been about a planned event, an "I'm sorry it's taken me so long to update the member list", watch out your signature is to big, stop cluttering the member thread, or to make some other type of correction. I got it, you're in school...Well, I work a full time job, I'm raising two girls, the whole family goes to the Dojo twice a week, I help to teach at the Dojo (2-3 nights during the week), promote this place, help Mustang Addicts on FB, I'm a forum moderator on the new MA forum, admin for the Carolina Chapter FB page, and I'm working with Jason. Don't tell me how frick'n hard or busy you are trying to take care of this place. Ban me if you want, but "I" will still be part of this crew either here or elsewhere.

p.s. I even made a new thread to make it easy.

HT

PM(s) sent.

Like I said before, if anyone else has any comments, suggestions, problems, etc. for me, feel free to send me a PM and I'll be happy to read it and get back to you. I may make a thread about a general response to all this if it is needed, but currently I just want to deal with each situation separately just to avoid threads like this.

- HT

Jay@Hypermotive

Hunter, out of curiousity.... what's wrong with threads like this? There is no reason to send PM's, really, there isn't. We leave nothing out on the table....

alan0614

What they said.

Jeffk

Hunter and I have had pretty much the same conversation via pm.

HT

Nothing wrong with it, but I prefer to handle this on a case by case basis, and then I'll bring the general points back to the forum.

Maybe it's because I prefer not to be teamed up on by everyone at once and I do better dealing with situations on a person by person basis? I'm not too sure.

And I'm assuming you meant "We leave everything out on the table," which isn't exactly true. I'm well aware of the talk that goes on here about the job that I do that I rarely ever see, until it's escalated to a point where it gets presented to me in a confrontational manner, rather than a constructive conversation.

In the end, it's just a personality difference, and I'm in the minority. What would be nice is if ya'll would embrace that and stop criticizing the person that I am. If you think that I am not around this forum every day, and that in turn leads you to believe that I don't care about this group, you'd be wrong.

Again, nothing wrong with this thread. If there was, I would have deleted it. I just don't prefer to bring drama into something that doesn't need it, and I operate better on a personal level. That's all.

kzonts

If you ask me, I don't think we need a President. We have functioned very well as a group for a long time now. And to be honest there are a select few who carry the torch. And that would be Alan, John, Jeff, Jason, Steve, Clint and Larry. Yes, I know Hunter helped to get this up and running, but I haven't seen much participation for quite a while. Maybe I'm missing something, but I doubt it. I'm not claiming to be a primary member of this group, but I do know who really makes a difference. No disrespect, just being observant.

Sleeper_GT

You know why it has gotten like this, because as a leader you should know your men. One problem...You don't because you never communicate with them. Leaders lead from the front, not like a "Shadow Government" lurking in the background. We don't give a crap if you say you're an introvert, I'm an introvert! You come across as anti-social. Can't even put up a post and BS with the boys. We don't want "Perfect", we want to know who is in charge. You are just a name bud! No one here knows you or anything about you. We would except you for who you are, but we need that piece of information. Right now you are a guy that wants to be a "President", but has no idea how to be "Presidential". It's not just a title to "Hold" over people, it's a title that has "Responsibility" to be there for the people. You are using the wrong "President" as your model of success.

I have read your PM's and had a response written, but it was less than tactful and a "Knee jerk" reaction. I will say this though: You don't care how busy I am, then stop whining about how busy you are! There is a lot more I would love to say, but I digress.

clowe1965

Hunter, I suggest we look at the official regional guidelines and follow them. This means electing a vp and electing a president every 6 months. Kevin does have a point, we function very well without any interference, coordination or official leadership on this forum, with exception of stickies and maintaining the member list. I can't say it hasn't happened, but I have never seen evidence of a post being edited by yourself, removed, or a thread deleted. I started some jibe remark that ended up with me calling john stupid in a sarcastic manner that spread on to three threads in a few hours and got to the point where I thought I had truly insulted John instead of the ball busting that was intended. That instance was resolved, I apologized and we moved on. Now that comment is a standing joke with us, and you did not step in until after it was resolved. We all miss the forums from day to day and don't all post everyday, but for that particular situation having a vp would have increased the frequency that the threads are checked and possible issues headed off. Another situation, less minor occurred with the new members thread a few months ago with guys asking for member numbers. Not going to stop them from participating, but important on some level for a few guys when first starting out. You were busy and that took a while. Understandable. A second person to be there and pick it up when you cant get to the computer may have gotten those guys a number and they would be more involved now if it had gone differently. Who knows? My point is use the pre-set guidelines and most of the issues will go away.

HT

This is why.

Okay, I'll approach these one by one:

Kevin: I agree with that for the most part. That's exactly why I try to refer to this as a confederation when asked. What do we have here that requires a "President"? We have no bank account that I need to keep everyone up do date on. Individual events are typically headed up by whomever was interested in/came up with the idea in the first place. Ya'll feel free to tell me what you want me to do that is "presidential". In terms of myself not being someone who "makes a difference," okay...personally, I don't know what ya'll expect to mean making a difference. If organizing one successful event makes you part of that crew, I've tried. If attending every event makes you part of that crew, I just can't monetarily. If posting thirty times a day makes you one of that group? I'm just quiet, pardon me for being me. However, I do agree that the "presidential" position is one that is more of a title for getting things running than one that should require me to act as a figurehead here. This group doesn't really "need" a president.

JJ: This isn't the military, ya'll are not "my men." I also don't understand your opinion as to what a president is. What type of communication is it that you exude? When 75% of your posts are just about the fact that you're laughing, or that you want someone to shop at Hypermotive, is that really communicating? Post count and communication don't correlate in my book. You want to know who's in charge? My entire opinion on this is that it is a chapter, and nobody needs to be in charge! It's supposed to be a family, do you need me to act like a father? The catch-22 with that attempt is I am not going to be viewed as a "presidential" figure, even if I try to, because I'm 21, so my entire approach is to try to keep things in order, and to sit back and be "one of the guys" when there is no need for me to be a power figure. Me "being one of the guys" is me being quiet, and listening, and interjecting when I feel the need to interject. I don't have to "BS with the boys" every day to be part of the group. That is an opinion of my personality, rather than an opinion of my leadership skills.

If you want to know who I am, ask me. If you want to talk to me about fireworks, music, college sports, home brewing/beer, skiing, computers, or Mustangs I'm your guy. I'm very quiet, but it doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. I tend to speak when I have something worthwhile to say, rather than just talking to fill space or to hear my own voice. However if you get me on a topic that I'm into, I will talk to you for days. That is me in a nutshell. If you want to know more, I'm always here.

Please name some ways that I "hold my position over people." I try to avoid this at all costs, so I'd be interested to know how I do that.

As far as how busy I am, I don't use that. I say it in the member list thread because I don't want the new members to think that I forgot about them. The reality is it takes me 10 minutes to get everything set up to add a new member to the list and go through all the posts, but once I'm set up I can do each additional one in about a minute, so I prefer to do them in small groups to save time. Do I let it go too long from time to time? Yes, I do, and I apologize, but I still get it done, and I've been on top of it much better recently. What I meant by that was that I don't need you to detail out how busy you are for me, I could do the same crap for you, but the moral of the story is we are all busy, and need to be lenient with one another.

Clint: That is sort of the passive aggression that creates this problem. Going to the Regional Guidelines, that are not followed by any regional chapter that I know of, just to see if there is a way to get me "out of office" is pretty low if you ask me. If you want to read through all the "requirements" of a Chapter President, I think you'll see that I fulfill all of those. "We function very well without any interference, coordination or official leadership on this forum, with exception of stickies and maintaining the member list." I do both of those things, and I wholeheartedly agree, which is why I try to avoid being an "official leader" in most cases. Why interject and try to enforce my leadership position when it's not needed? The part about me not editing/deleting posts or threads, not true. Did you not think that the reason you don't see things being deleted, is the fact that they are deleted? The majority of the threads that are made here are relevant (or as relevant as they need to be to be a part of this forum) and don't need to be deleted. I delete all the spam and stuff like that, but it's usually not a problem. I also delete double posts when I see them, but if I were to "clean up" all the off topic posts (is that what you're asking?) then I'd just be deleting hundreds and hundreds of posts...why?

As far as your situation with John, I saw that develop. What did you want me to say? Either you insulted the guy or you didn't. We're adults and ya'll can work it out. Did you want me to come in and delete the posts that were made? What good would that do? I can't read sarcasm any better than ya'll can, everything that is "said" on this site, is read in whatever tone is interpreted. If someone can't tell if you were insulting them, then how am I supposed to know? I can delete posts, but that wouldn't have done any good in that situation. I can also edit your posts, but people say what they want to say. That sounds very Marxist of me to control the content of people's messages. If the issue ended up being resolved (as all of them are) and it is now a joke (as it is) then what is wrong with it? It's part of the family. Little rifts can always make things stronger.

Now the issue with the member numbers? Yeah, I got slack, and that was my fault. I see no problem with waiting a week or so to assign a number just to do it in a group rather than one at a time, although I've been doing it fairly religiously lately. Should I wait as long as I did? No, but I'm fixing that.

Now, what you're insinuating is that we elect a VP, and while I'm okay with that, I wasn't under the impression that we "need" one at this point, so I have been waiting to find the right person. We have plenty of people that can handle it, but I haven't found the right one yet, in my opinion (operating on the assumption that a position in this chapter would be a long term ordeal). Personally, I've been waiting on someone in the eastern part of our region to take this position, as we are highly concentrated in the west, and we could use some leadership in the east to spark some interest from that side of the area. So, that rules out Alan (who I considered), Steve (who would be great), Clint (never really considered him) and Jeff (who asked). It leaves us with Larry (who I think would be great) and JJ (who would do a good job). My reasoning for not using these people is that Larry has a role with HCMC, and I didn't know if he would have the time for this too (although I could have asked). JJ would do a great job I'm sure, but personality wise, I think it's pretty obvious that we don't get along very well, and I was looking for someone...slightly less opinionated and open. I'm not insulting his character, I wholeheartedly feel he's a great guy who means the best, but is he dedicated to this group alone (MA comes into effect here) as well as the best for being open to all people? Personally, I think there maybe someone else who will come along that will be better for this position. Now, is this my call? According to the Guidelines, no, it's not. But I haven't felt overwhelmed to this point, and I was waiting to see who came along before we put someone in this position.

I'm fully capable of keeping all of the stuff that we need in working order. If ya'll feel the member list needs to be updated daily, I can do that at our current rate of expansion. If ya'll actually use the Event Calendar, I can update it. I stopped because I never got much feedback on it and felt it was a waste of time. If ya'll want more thread maintenance, I can do that too, but I'm sure I'll get flak for being too strict if I do that (have before). I need ya'll to tell me what you would like. That is why I ask ya'll to PM me, constructively, with these things. If you have ever done that, I bet you'd see that I am responsive to those messages and very friendly and open, assuming they aren't sent in a contentious manner.

Overall:

I've been trying to look out for this chapter, whether ya'll see it or not, and I really don't appreciate being bashed for my efforts. My point here is that why does it have to get to a rolling boil like this? What is wrong with hitting me up long before these emotions and drama are built up? Sure, I've gotten PMs before, but when the gist of them is "I talked to _____ and we agree that you are doing this, and this, and this wrong," that isn't going to help. If you shoot me a PM explaining an opinion that YOU have, I'm more than willing to read it and think about it, and then explain my opinion on it back to you. I feel like that is part of the issue with this as well, everyone feels like they get to bash me, but when I hold my own, I come off with a kingly air. No...I just don't appreciate getting shi* for my efforts. I'm all for constructive criticism.

I could go on, but at this point I feel like I've explained myself and what I'm attempting to do here. If you don't appreciate the effort that I put in, I don't know what to tell you. I work on a lot of little events that I put time into, and then when I bring them here and there is this feeling that I'm not "part of the crew" so no one voices any support of the event, I feel like I wasted my time, and I'm much less likely to put the time in again. If you want me to be "one of the guys" then treat me and my efforts accordingly and I'll do the same to ya'll.

I hope everyone is doing well, and I look forward to seeing some of ya'll tomorrow. I hope we can put this behind us and move forward as the "family" that we like to say that we are.

- Riggs

EDIT: Just for clarification, this is not meant to be derogatory towards anyone, or anything. Any opinion on personality or comments made were just that, opinions. We are all different people and we all operate in different ways, and I'm not advocating that my way is better or worse than anyone elses; I was simply explaining myself and my actions. We truly have a great group here and I feel like it is a family atmosphere, and one that I want to be more a part of than I currently feel I am. I don't know if I've ever met a more genuine group than this one, so please don't take my words as insults. They're not intended to be.

I'm also not bashing Hypermotive. I think it's a great company, with great customer service and employees, and I appreciate what ya'll do for this chapter. You're also a forum sponser, so feel free to advertise whenever and wherever you want! The only thing I meant by that is that I don't feel that promoting your business really qualifies as providing much to the content of the group, other than more bada** cars for everyone in the long run! My comments were not in connection with your company or the quality of it.