Spun a roller lifter over the weekend....
02-21-2012, 04:57 PM
#11
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,946
How ever slight the chance do you really want to blow up the same engine twice? I would do a complete tear down, wash the block, new bearings with a complete inspection. Cylinder walls should be good and the heads should be good.
02-21-2012, 07:06 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 15
when my hyd. cam went flat, i "washed" the engine with about 2-3 gallons of diesel and drained as per the recommendation of my engine builder. I then went to a roller cam and since then have had low oil pressure.Being that i had so many issues with Ford Performance, i gave up and let the engine be as it was.
Me personally, i would pull some rod caps and a main and check the bearing to make sure.No sence in wiping out a crank journal.Also cut your filter open and see if theres any metal and how fine it is. By the looks of it, is gonna be very fine, not chunks.
Me personally, i would pull some rod caps and a main and check the bearing to make sure.No sence in wiping out a crank journal.Also cut your filter open and see if theres any metal and how fine it is. By the looks of it, is gonna be very fine, not chunks.
I don't necessarily agree with that..... In practice, the small shards of metal will....
a. Mostly wash into the oil pan
b. Some will be too big to pass through the screen in the pick-up.
c. ALL will be too big to pass a properly functioning filter
IMO the biggest risks are
a. Some shards will find their way onto the surface of the new cam
b. The oil pick-up will become blocked
c. Tho oil pump will experience unusual wear from shards passing through
There are "risks" in not tearing the engine down for a rebuild/clean out, but IMO, if a little common sense is used in the repair, the risks are slight, slight, slight. These slight risks can be almost entirely mitigated by cleaning out the valley, and dropping the oil pan to inspect/clean the pan, pump, and pickup. (But, I would probably just flush the pan on the engine, engine in car, myself. )
By the time any car engine reaches 100K, it will have ingested lots of metal
a. Mostly wash into the oil pan
b. Some will be too big to pass through the screen in the pick-up.
c. ALL will be too big to pass a properly functioning filter
IMO the biggest risks are
a. Some shards will find their way onto the surface of the new cam
b. The oil pick-up will become blocked
c. Tho oil pump will experience unusual wear from shards passing through
There are "risks" in not tearing the engine down for a rebuild/clean out, but IMO, if a little common sense is used in the repair, the risks are slight, slight, slight. These slight risks can be almost entirely mitigated by cleaning out the valley, and dropping the oil pan to inspect/clean the pan, pump, and pickup. (But, I would probably just flush the pan on the engine, engine in car, myself. )
By the time any car engine reaches 100K, it will have ingested lots of metal
I'm willing to take the slight risk.
02-22-2012, 10:41 AM
#13
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: az
Posts: 459
Bummer.
Out of curiosity, have you looked at the valve springs? Did the offending lifter have a corresponding broken spring? Were the valve springs matched to the cam?
Do you recall downshifting a little too soon at any given time leading to an over rev condition? May be an over rev at upshift?
If it was mine, I would pull the motor and take a look at the bearings. I would probably replace the main and rod bearings assuming no sign of significant damage. You don't want lose a rod bearing at the track. There is a lot more at stake than just the cost of the motor. Your next snafu could be priceless.
Keep us posted on this. I haven't seen this often and would like to know the cause. thank you
Out of curiosity, have you looked at the valve springs? Did the offending lifter have a corresponding broken spring? Were the valve springs matched to the cam?
Do you recall downshifting a little too soon at any given time leading to an over rev condition? May be an over rev at upshift?
If it was mine, I would pull the motor and take a look at the bearings. I would probably replace the main and rod bearings assuming no sign of significant damage. You don't want lose a rod bearing at the track. There is a lot more at stake than just the cost of the motor. Your next snafu could be priceless.
Keep us posted on this. I haven't seen this often and would like to know the cause. thank you
Last edited by OCHOHILL; 02-23-2012 at 02:47 PM. Reason: grammar/spelling
02-22-2012, 12:08 PM
#14
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 15
Bummer.
Out of curiosity, have you looked at the valve springs? Did the offending lifter have a corresponding broken spring? Where the valve springs matched to the cam?
Do you recall downshifting a little too soon at any given time leading to an over rev condition? May be an over rev at upshift?
If it was mine, I would pull the motor and take a look at the bearings. I would probably replace the main and rod bearings assuming no sign of significant damage. You don't want lose a rod bearing at the track. There is a lot more at stake than just the cost of the motor. Your next snafu could be priceless.
Keep us posted on this. I haven't seen this often and would like to know the cause. thank you
Out of curiosity, have you looked at the valve springs? Did the offending lifter have a corresponding broken spring? Where the valve springs matched to the cam?
Do you recall downshifting a little too soon at any given time leading to an over rev condition? May be an over rev at upshift?
If it was mine, I would pull the motor and take a look at the bearings. I would probably replace the main and rod bearings assuming no sign of significant damage. You don't want lose a rod bearing at the track. There is a lot more at stake than just the cost of the motor. Your next snafu could be priceless.
Keep us posted on this. I haven't seen this often and would like to know the cause. thank you
And as for over revving, that is probably my problem I'm pretty sure I kept it under 5.5k, but I'm not 100 percent on that.
02-23-2012, 02:49 PM
#15
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: az
Posts: 459
Measure the spring height at valve open and close. Mark the offending springs. Take the offending springs and another set to a machine shop and have the tension checked at valve close and open. See if this matches the cam requirements. I think it is worth your time to determine why this happened.
02-23-2012, 11:04 PM
#17
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: AR
Posts: 5,469
I am not going to claim to be an authority, but I can say that in my experience from owning a fair sized fleet of trucks, that I have never had to rebuild an engine because of a part getting ground up and contaminating the oil, ever. Many of them that have a $20,000 price tag for an engine rebuild, so if an engine munched a bull gear, or wiped a cam, I would often/usually just fix the damn thing for 1/4 the cost of a rebuild and move on.
I never saw suspended metal make it past the filter to destroy any bearings, nor did I ever see a cylinder bore chewed up.
Some of these engines are still in service, no rebuild, and over a million miles, and more than a half a million since some of these episodes.
Rebuilding a motor that does not need it is not only a waste of money, it is a crying shame.
Maybe I might pull a cap if I suspected oil starvation from a blocked pickup screen, or a damaged/failed pump, but this and a visual would be it for me.
How about all that metal that wears off freshly honed cross hatch marks in cylinders?
I never saw suspended metal make it past the filter to destroy any bearings, nor did I ever see a cylinder bore chewed up.
Some of these engines are still in service, no rebuild, and over a million miles, and more than a half a million since some of these episodes.
Rebuilding a motor that does not need it is not only a waste of money, it is a crying shame.
Maybe I might pull a cap if I suspected oil starvation from a blocked pickup screen, or a damaged/failed pump, but this and a visual would be it for me.
How about all that metal that wears off freshly honed cross hatch marks in cylinders?
02-29-2012, 01:10 AM
#18
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: ca
Posts: 14
IMO you exceeded the rpm limits of your valve train, floated a lifter, which knocked the "dog bone" off....
Those rollers are heavier than standard lifters, which means that for a given valve train, the rpm capability is less for a roller than for a flat lifter.
It is MY OPINION that your failure is a result of valve train over speed, and probably nothing more.
Linked lifters would have prevented the lifter from turning in the bore, but stronger valve springs would have stopped the lifter from turning too, and should be used whether you go with linked lifters or the "spider and bones".
Build your engine with a rpm limit in mind, and a rev limiter will be a wise decision, especially if you are going racing.
Those rollers are heavier than standard lifters, which means that for a given valve train, the rpm capability is less for a roller than for a flat lifter.
It is MY OPINION that your failure is a result of valve train over speed, and probably nothing more.
Linked lifters would have prevented the lifter from turning in the bore, but stronger valve springs would have stopped the lifter from turning too, and should be used whether you go with linked lifters or the "spider and bones".
Build your engine with a rpm limit in mind, and a rev limiter will be a wise decision, especially if you are going racing.
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