t5 swap experience needed please
Thread Starter
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 764
From: California
@stangatic: Well aware of 4cyl/v8 tranny differences, I have had this swap in mind for awhile. Already have brakes...
https://mustangforums.com/forum/clas...s-writeup.html
And you have which ratio overdrive? Looking at your engine specs I would guess your 289 makes power in the higher rpm range too which wouldn't help with trying to cruise at 1900rpm, but point taken. Dang I thought I could avoid having to buy a new starter too, hopefully I'll get a used one cheap.
https://mustangforums.com/forum/clas...s-writeup.html
And you have which ratio overdrive? Looking at your engine specs I would guess your 289 makes power in the higher rpm range too which wouldn't help with trying to cruise at 1900rpm, but point taken. Dang I thought I could avoid having to buy a new starter too, hopefully I'll get a used one cheap.
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 535
From: Maryland
^ Nice brake write up. I might us it since I am familiar with the Cobra brakes (had them on my 2000 gt).
You know what and not to high jack your thread, but I never really thought about the engine power band and my issues with cruising...... My cam needs RPMs.... I wonder if swapping the came from something more streetable would be cheaper/easier. possibly a new thread later towards the end of the year.
As for the T5 - and as you found out with your brake install..... nothing is just ever bolt in and go. At least you are doing your research.
You know what and not to high jack your thread, but I never really thought about the engine power band and my issues with cruising...... My cam needs RPMs.... I wonder if swapping the came from something more streetable would be cheaper/easier. possibly a new thread later towards the end of the year.
As for the T5 - and as you found out with your brake install..... nothing is just ever bolt in and go. At least you are doing your research.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 34
From: Canada
Awesome write up guys and thanks to the OP for asking the questions. As he said this info will help others such as myself. I'm currently looking to convert my C4 to a T5 and this info is bang on. I'm just wondering where you guys found the best places to purchase the required parts? I don't mind paying for quality or parts that will make my life easier but I also don't like to overpay if I can help it. I'm looking to go with the hydraulic clutch and do the conversion the right way as I plan on keeping this car for the duration. Any help or advice is appreciated.
Thread Starter
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 764
From: California
Craigslist will be your best friend. You don't want to pay shipping costs if avoidable, plus some people may not know what they have if you're lucky. I am in need of a place to take my car apart (the folks' didn't like the idea of me doing it at their place) so I can't even start collecting what I need, which disappoints me. Anyone near Santa Cruz or Monterey area with room for me to do this? Would pay cash for the driveway space...
The hydraulic clutch setup from modern driveline is too trick for me not to spend the money on. However, clearly people have put the necessary pieces together themselves to do a hydraulic clutch setup cheaper. Personally I like the idea of ordering it all as a kit, and I like the linkage setup from modern driveline.
Adding some questions of my own: Does anyone here know how I would go about hooking up the reverse lights after doing the swap?
The hydraulic clutch setup from modern driveline is too trick for me not to spend the money on. However, clearly people have put the necessary pieces together themselves to do a hydraulic clutch setup cheaper. Personally I like the idea of ordering it all as a kit, and I like the linkage setup from modern driveline.
Adding some questions of my own: Does anyone here know how I would go about hooking up the reverse lights after doing the swap?
Last edited by guitarman376; Oct 3, 2012 at 01:46 AM. Reason: grammar
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 34
From: Canada
Thanks for the input but due to the limited population size of where I live, Craigslist won't be much help. I'm looking at the best prices online that guys have found for the parts. I live in Canada so shipping costs will most likely kill me but any input would be great from those who have ordered the parts. Thanks
Thread Starter
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 764
From: California
Well tomorrow I am finally picking up a tranny, actually two. They are both in non working order but the seller only wants 300 for both. One was his that ran out of oil while being used, and I am hoping that means a simple rebuild kit w/bearings, synchros, etc would fix it. He did say it is frozen up tho... The other one apparently only has a sychro/slider issue. You never know about these things til' you check it out yourself, so I guess tomorrow is D Day. I know for sure they are both out of v8 cars (one 1986) and the other one is unidentified. Wish me luck.
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 535
From: Maryland
Sounds like a two for one deal! However, would be cautious with the tranny that's frozen. Send it to promotion powertrain (http://www.promotionpowertrain.com) and they will do whats needed to get the tranny in tip top shape. If your looking to tackle the rebuild yourself, practice with the tranny that is frozen.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Thread Starter
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 764
From: California
Turns out neither one is frozen, which is a huge relief. One transmission had 2 gears with some galling (one on mainshaft gear that meshes with the other on countershaft), but other than those two gears the rest in both trannies looked good. Not sure if I will use one as a core for a rebuilt one, or if I will have mine rebuilt. I am leaning towards having one of them rebuilt though. What is a crazy coincidence is that they are two of the exact same transmission (he found the second tailhousing tag) so that gives me the option of switching parts from one to the other. He also threw in 2 stock shifters and a new tailhousing seal. If people are still following this thread I have a few new questions. So both the t5's are from 86' cars, meaning they do not have the stronger alloy gears and cluster, correct? What other differences are there? I would really like to have at least a 300 ft/lb rated tranny after rebuild. So restating this, specifically how are they different? The following article mentions the gears and the cluster (I am not sure exactly what they mean when they just say cluster)
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/thehis...n/viewall.html
And this one just says gears...
http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/thehis...n/viewall.html
And this one just says gears...
http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm
Thread Starter
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 764
From: California
Right after I posted that I found this: http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm
So the gears, syncronizer linings, and speedo gear drive appear to be the only difference.
So the gears, syncronizer linings, and speedo gear drive appear to be the only difference.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 216
From: U.S.
First of all, apologies for the massive thread this is about to be, its length is meant to show how serious I am about doing this. My car currently has an fmx tranny that is getting ready to die (slipping). I know that this topic has received a lot of attention on this forum already, but after digging up old threads I still have some questions about the t5 swap. I spent over an hour constructing this thread and simulataneously looking at websites so your help/explanations are greatly appreciated. Before you refer me to a "complete kit" website, I have seen them all. With these types of things my experience has taught me its best to not trust anything that says "complete". Besides, I like doing research before getting into something. Also, I have read many available swap how-to's but they aren't answering the q's I have.
1) Everything I have read seems to tell me that as long as you don't powershift a stock WC t5, it is safe to run behind a mostly stock 351w that is street driven. By mostly stock I mean exhaust, a near-stock cam (practically stock), and maybe intake/air cleaner. Does that sound fair/accurate? If it matters I am hoping to find a 1990-93 WC unit.
I have ran a t5Z with my 347 street/race engine 360 tq, 334RWHP for almost 2 years now, no problems. I have given it hell many times but never full blown speed shifting.
2) What are people's opinions about using a cable clutch? How is the feel/effort? Something I have read is that cable clutches make finding headers that fit properly difficult, is that true? I plan on using something like hedman shorty headers, and I'm assuming those would be fine.
I went with the hydraulic clutch by modern driveline because it looked to be the most universal way to go when it comes to headers and power brake boosters in the way as opposed to a ZBAR.
3) Any bellhousing from a stick 5.0 mustang will eliminate the need for an adapter plate, correct? What else is needed to mate the tranny to the engine? YES....
4) My rear end has a 3.00 ratio, and I understand that a higher ratio such as 3.50 or 3.73 is considered optimum for this swap. Would 5th gear be useable for 70-75mph cruising? I calculated a 5th gear driving rpm of 1921 at 70mph but don't know if that is okay. I have the T5Z with a .63 final drive I believe, can't remember..could be .61. I installed a 3.55 rear end. I am turning 2100 at 70mph with 14" wheels and 205 70 tires. I think my tire height is 24.5. 5th gear is more than usable for cruising the highway and you will greatly appreciate the lower rpms!
5) I am VERY confused with the pedal assembly and clutch operation aspect. Please be extra clear and patient with me here. Obviously I would need the pedal and whatever is needed to attach it to the pedal assembly, for which many kits exist.
example: http://www.moderndriveline.com/catal...9-70-pedal.gif
Would I need a pedal stop? pedal return spring? anything else? And do holes need to be cut for the pedal or clutch cable assembly since my car is automatic? I'm assuming drilling is neccessary. I would go with the hydraulic clutch...
6) Would something like the following kit below give me everything I would need for the cable operation of the clutch?
http://www.moderndriveline.com/catal..._Cable_kit.jpg
By everything I mean everything. AKA for the pedal/firewall area, running the cable, how it attaches to the tranny, everything needed to operate the clutch etc? What about routing the clutch cable? Where/how is it supported? I know I would need a clutch, what about a shift fork and any related parts? (again please explain/give detail!) I lack transmission/clutch knowledge because I have never worked with them before. As you can tell I don't really know what I need, but I am confident I could do the swap with the right preparation and guidance. Plus doing projects like this is my favorite way to learn these things.
7) It seems I would need a 28oz flywheel, correct? Do the flywheel and cluch depend on each other in terms of compatibility? AKA will any 28oz flywheel work with any of the available clutches for this application? Or should I buy them together ex http://moderndriveline.com/catalog/clutches.htm (the combo priced at $265 is what I'm thinking)
8) Would I need a new speedometer cable? How difficult is this install? What about the reverse switch? What must need to be done when doing this swap? Yes...it requires a different cable. Look it up at CJ pony.
9) Any simple way to get a neutral safety switch to work on a classic? What I mean is to make the ignition require the clutch pedal to be pushed before starting. I figure this could save a potential incident. ...or could turn out to be a thorn in your side...
10) I understand that shortening my driveshaft might be necessary. How does one tell if it is necessary? I have read that you measure endplay, how is this done? How much should having it shortened cost? I also understand I will need a new driveshaft yoke. Which on this list would I need?
http://www.safepay.net/cgi-bin/shop/...oderndriveline Approx. 1 inch shorter. I chose to buy a new driveshaft to avoid the pain of having to measure and cut and hope it is right.
9) What is a block plate and which kind would I need/want?
10) OE starter works with this swap? Yes...
11) Can a 1990-93 WC t5 be upgraded to z spec? At what cost? Or is my thinking totally off? I'm hoping this wouldn't be that much more over the cost of a basic rebuild kit. I bought a refurbished T5Z from ford racing
12) My plan is to scoop up a rebuildable 90-93 t5 and have it rebuilt to stock (or z) spec. I found this ad for rebuilding services and the price seems almost too good to be true. $275 labor plus parts for rebuild. I don't know if I can trust it... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pts/3279805020.html
The transmission is what's causing me the most worry. It doesn't seem like there is a TRUSTED company that sells rebuilt t5's cheaply ($600-900). And the cost of new stock t5's seems like so much considering their power limitations. Suggestions welcome here. What should a tranny shop charge for labor to rebuild a t5? I understand that the parts cost is variable here. I don't like the idea of sending the transmission somewhere to be rebuilt and then hoping that it is done right. It's a lot of work to put it in and then find out there is a problem. That is why I bought one from Ford Racing..
13) The automatics use vacuum lines. What must be done to plug these lines after the swap?
I want to buy a used bellhousing, used upgraded shifter (pro50 or hurst etc), lever, possibly flywheel, and other miscellaneous things to save cost. That is an additional reason I am asking such specific questions. Any answers won't just help me but future swappers as well. Let me know which Q your answering so this thread doesn't become too much of a mess if it isn't already. Thanks!
1) Everything I have read seems to tell me that as long as you don't powershift a stock WC t5, it is safe to run behind a mostly stock 351w that is street driven. By mostly stock I mean exhaust, a near-stock cam (practically stock), and maybe intake/air cleaner. Does that sound fair/accurate? If it matters I am hoping to find a 1990-93 WC unit.
I have ran a t5Z with my 347 street/race engine 360 tq, 334RWHP for almost 2 years now, no problems. I have given it hell many times but never full blown speed shifting.
2) What are people's opinions about using a cable clutch? How is the feel/effort? Something I have read is that cable clutches make finding headers that fit properly difficult, is that true? I plan on using something like hedman shorty headers, and I'm assuming those would be fine.
I went with the hydraulic clutch by modern driveline because it looked to be the most universal way to go when it comes to headers and power brake boosters in the way as opposed to a ZBAR.
3) Any bellhousing from a stick 5.0 mustang will eliminate the need for an adapter plate, correct? What else is needed to mate the tranny to the engine? YES....
4) My rear end has a 3.00 ratio, and I understand that a higher ratio such as 3.50 or 3.73 is considered optimum for this swap. Would 5th gear be useable for 70-75mph cruising? I calculated a 5th gear driving rpm of 1921 at 70mph but don't know if that is okay. I have the T5Z with a .63 final drive I believe, can't remember..could be .61. I installed a 3.55 rear end. I am turning 2100 at 70mph with 14" wheels and 205 70 tires. I think my tire height is 24.5. 5th gear is more than usable for cruising the highway and you will greatly appreciate the lower rpms!
5) I am VERY confused with the pedal assembly and clutch operation aspect. Please be extra clear and patient with me here. Obviously I would need the pedal and whatever is needed to attach it to the pedal assembly, for which many kits exist.
example: http://www.moderndriveline.com/catal...9-70-pedal.gif
Would I need a pedal stop? pedal return spring? anything else? And do holes need to be cut for the pedal or clutch cable assembly since my car is automatic? I'm assuming drilling is neccessary. I would go with the hydraulic clutch...
6) Would something like the following kit below give me everything I would need for the cable operation of the clutch?
http://www.moderndriveline.com/catal..._Cable_kit.jpg
By everything I mean everything. AKA for the pedal/firewall area, running the cable, how it attaches to the tranny, everything needed to operate the clutch etc? What about routing the clutch cable? Where/how is it supported? I know I would need a clutch, what about a shift fork and any related parts? (again please explain/give detail!) I lack transmission/clutch knowledge because I have never worked with them before. As you can tell I don't really know what I need, but I am confident I could do the swap with the right preparation and guidance. Plus doing projects like this is my favorite way to learn these things.
7) It seems I would need a 28oz flywheel, correct? Do the flywheel and cluch depend on each other in terms of compatibility? AKA will any 28oz flywheel work with any of the available clutches for this application? Or should I buy them together ex http://moderndriveline.com/catalog/clutches.htm (the combo priced at $265 is what I'm thinking)
8) Would I need a new speedometer cable? How difficult is this install? What about the reverse switch? What must need to be done when doing this swap? Yes...it requires a different cable. Look it up at CJ pony.
9) Any simple way to get a neutral safety switch to work on a classic? What I mean is to make the ignition require the clutch pedal to be pushed before starting. I figure this could save a potential incident. ...or could turn out to be a thorn in your side...
10) I understand that shortening my driveshaft might be necessary. How does one tell if it is necessary? I have read that you measure endplay, how is this done? How much should having it shortened cost? I also understand I will need a new driveshaft yoke. Which on this list would I need?
http://www.safepay.net/cgi-bin/shop/...oderndriveline Approx. 1 inch shorter. I chose to buy a new driveshaft to avoid the pain of having to measure and cut and hope it is right.
9) What is a block plate and which kind would I need/want?
10) OE starter works with this swap? Yes...
11) Can a 1990-93 WC t5 be upgraded to z spec? At what cost? Or is my thinking totally off? I'm hoping this wouldn't be that much more over the cost of a basic rebuild kit. I bought a refurbished T5Z from ford racing
12) My plan is to scoop up a rebuildable 90-93 t5 and have it rebuilt to stock (or z) spec. I found this ad for rebuilding services and the price seems almost too good to be true. $275 labor plus parts for rebuild. I don't know if I can trust it... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pts/3279805020.html
The transmission is what's causing me the most worry. It doesn't seem like there is a TRUSTED company that sells rebuilt t5's cheaply ($600-900). And the cost of new stock t5's seems like so much considering their power limitations. Suggestions welcome here. What should a tranny shop charge for labor to rebuild a t5? I understand that the parts cost is variable here. I don't like the idea of sending the transmission somewhere to be rebuilt and then hoping that it is done right. It's a lot of work to put it in and then find out there is a problem. That is why I bought one from Ford Racing..
13) The automatics use vacuum lines. What must be done to plug these lines after the swap?
I want to buy a used bellhousing, used upgraded shifter (pro50 or hurst etc), lever, possibly flywheel, and other miscellaneous things to save cost. That is an additional reason I am asking such specific questions. Any answers won't just help me but future swappers as well. Let me know which Q your answering so this thread doesn't become too much of a mess if it isn't already. Thanks!