Hello

I am replacing both front shocks because they are worn and now that the upper control arm is free im thinking about doing them too.

I also have OPR roller perches on the way

I am currently running KYB gas adjust shocks high pressure I believe with either a 620 or 650 rate spring that measures 12" in total height

I have the global west lower a arms and tubular strut rods. The upper A Arms are stock and mounted in the stock holes.

at this point I think I could see real performance improvements from the Global West negative roll control arm vs the stock control arm. What else should I be taking into account. It appears my current springs and shocks would be suitable and the Negative roll UCA would complement the strut rods and LCAs I already have. In conjunction with the OPR roller perches it should be a good setup. How much is this going to lower my ride height and what else should I be aware of?

Thanks

-Gun

 

Get a better shock, you'll get 10x more out of a shock than you will the control arms. Maier has custom valved Bilsteins for whatever spring rate you're running (500, 600 or 700) for the Classics.

I'm saving up for their coil over upper arm/shock/spring combo, uses a JRI shock (owned by one of the former top designers of Penske shocks) and relocates the lower spring/shock mount for better shock motion. The stock upper arm is actually decent in terms of performance (rigidity etc), and there's no point in going to a high dollar upper arm unless it gives you some sort of other benefit, like shock relocation (that's a big one too).

The KYB are meh for the money, but if you're concerned about handling they're a complete junk shock. The Bilsteins that Maier has will provide 10x better control and give you phenomenal ride quality (they're way worth the money).

 

The GW upper control arm should provide improved tire contact pattern during cornering...That said I'll look into those shocks thanks for the tip!

-Gun

 

Tire contact pattern is dictated by geometry and the design of the tire. The only way the stock a-arm would start to impede that through flexing, is under extreme cornering. Most people would need a race compound tire to get to that point. It's probably the most rigid suspension piece in stock form, and isn't too terrible vanilla. It has a solid location, is somewhat compact, and the design and gauge of the stamping is such that it takes a fair bit to get it to flex.

Your car (Classics in general) have a whole lot of other severely deficient things that need to be corrected first. The shock in any car is one of the, if not THE single most important component of the suspension. Everything else is completely useless if the shock can't control the wheel...it just won't stay in contact with the road properly. And the inherent design of leaf spring cars has some substantial suspension balance issues.

Classics do benefit from a lower arm, because it's a critical part of the alignment equation and is pretty flexible in stock form. But really, an upper arm is the last thing that should be on your list (or very near the bottom). You need to look at putting more money into the rear first to address the inherent leaf spring problems that all leaf sprung cars have. Most stuff you do to the front will see little to no benefit if you can't bring the rear suspension into balance with the car.

Some of the tricks are cheap and simple, some aren't. But unless you have a ton of money into the rear, have done everything else AND have reinforced the chassis with supplemental welding and bracing, don't spend the money on an upper arm because your return on investment will be extremely minimal. There's better ways to spend the money first.

A good shock is the single best return on your investment. Not only does the shock control body roll and load transfer (and therefor handling) but it also has to address the changes in the condition of the road. And all at the same time. A bad shock has a hard time keeping the wheel in contact as road condition diminishes, and/or upsets the car because of sudden force changes due to lack of wheel control.

If I had to make a list of things from most important to least, or an order of how I'd do things, it would be:

1) Shocks/springs (ideally done at the same time, since the shock has to be tuned for the car/springs used)
2) Basic chassis reinforcement (subframe connectors, export brace, monte bar etc)
3) Bushings/movement tricks (anything that gives the suspension freedom to move properly without compromising handling, bushing tricks in the rear, roller perches etc)
4) LCA
5) Strut rod/bushing (something that offers more movement freedom and better precision)
6) Advanced chassis reinforcement (ie, 1970 Boss Trans Am Chassis mods, welding, extra gussets in places, more advanced subframe stuff such as x bracing, and possibly a roll bar/cage)
7) UCA

I've spent a bunch of money setting my car up, and still run the stock upper a arms. I even have a rear torsion spring assembly from Maier sitting in my living room that's a prototype waiting to be installed (to add spring rate to the rear without binding the leaf and help balance the car). At some point, the very last thing I'll do will be convert to their coil over for the front, mainly because it uses a crazy good (expensive) shock and has better gemoetry for the shock/spring with replaceable screw in ball joints.

If you had KYB shocks, and you have the money for the UCA....spend the money on a set of shocks for the front and rear, you'll be ahead in both performance and cash. Worry about an UCA after you're done worrying about other stuff.

 

I completely agree here. I had Gas-A-Justs on my car and while they were definitely better than any Monroe/Gabriel option, they were extremely skittery (for lack of a better word) over any kind of rough pavement. I noticed a world of improvement when I switched to a set of Edelbrock IAS shocks I got for cheap. The custom-valved Bilsteins would be a better choice and are only a few bucks more.

Instead of worrying about the negative-wedge UCA's, do the Shelby drop and put some money into the shocks. That will fix the tire geometry problem up front and get you some shocks that actually keep the tires on the ground.

 

I installed a set of opentracker roller perches and Maier / Bilstein shocks valved for 600 to 650 rate springs the "sports" package.

Its a noticeable improvement the ride is still stiff but bumps are less sharp if you will the suspension is more supple the impact of a bump feels more rolling. The new shocks have about a 60% larger bore size over the KYBs but compress far easier. It only takes about 70 lbs to move the piston down the bore. My body weight alone is not enough to compress a KYB shock I was surprised at how little effort it took to compress the Bilstein shock.

Mike Maier said that after doing the shocks a new upper a arm with negative roll installed in the shelby hole position would make a noticble improvement and a good next upgrade item.

Thanks guys

-Gun

 

You'll find those shocks don't ride much worse as the severity of the bump increases. I've eaten some MASSIVE highway potholes at 70mph...like, 3" deep and the size of a trashcan lid where a semi broke the road up and the asphalt got knocked out. Rolls through it, you feel it, but not jarring...just a consistant but solid feel.

Those shocks are a bit stiff, since they're valved for 600lb springs in a 3,200lb car, but they react really nicely. You'll find the car will stay flat in turns and never have issues over rough roads.

The Shelby drop will make a huge difference, because it fixes the screwed up dynamic camber the cars have stock. I know Mike prefers the upper arm with a negative roll setup for the ball joint on the upper arms, he said they've run into issues binding the ball joint with just a 1" drop in the past. I've never had issues on the stock arms with a 1" drop, but it really depends on spring rates, ride height and where/how you drive.

I thought about doing the ORP roller perch with a Maier or ORP upper arm, but I'm just gonna save and convert to the Maier coil over setup when I have the money (it's ~$1,800). He actually has a video of it in operation too...


It has improved geometry and a killer shock.