Intakes??
5th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,544
From:
RE: Intakes??
A few comments to add here:
1. The C&L Intake is about the same price as most of the others, intake for intake. The price of "$749" sounds high, but understand that this price is a combo pack that includes the tuner. If you add the tuner to any other CAI such as the JLT (Which I belive makes slightly more power than the C&L), or Steeda, or WMS, etc. the price is about the same. (if not higher in the case of the WMS).
Speaking of which, I think that the "Ram-Air" concept of the WMS intake is a bit more marketing buzz than anything else. "Ram Air" is a popular term that gets people excited when they hear it. But the truth is that a TRUE ram air system is not only difficult to design and implement (and sorry, but the WMS intake is NOT a true ram air system) but even when properly implemented the performance gains are not that much as one might think (perhaps 5% HP gain) and only kick in at HIGH speeds (100+ MPH). 99% of so-called "Ram Air Systems" are for looks. If you'd like to learn more, I suggest reading Motorcycle Turbocharging, Supercharging, and Nitrous Oxide by J. Haile. Yes, the book is mainly about motorcycles, but the technical discussions are relevant to any 4-stroke engine.
2. It is my understanding that the tests performed in the aforementined article from 5.0 Mustangs & Super Fords includes tuning in all cases, wether or not the "CAI Kit" comes with the tuner or not.
3. All of the hand-held tuners such as the SCT, Diablosport, Predator, etc. do the same thing. You don't have to have a Steeda tuner in order to install the CMCP. You can tune for that mod with any of the tuners, and you can install those parts in conjunction with any CAI.
4. Most of the big-name shops that sell tuners, etc, will provide their tuning expertise for free when you buy a tuner from them. For example, Brenspeed, Evolution, Bamachips, etc, will all give you excellent canned tunes at no charge when you buy the tuner from them, regardless of brand. Note that when you buy a CAI/Tuner, etc, you're not just buying the raw parts. You are buying the expertise of those who are providing the tunes. Of course, a custom Dyno tune for your car is the best. But, lacking that a good quality canned tune is a must. My advice is to buy whichever CAI kit (and other mods) that you like the best, but buy the tuner that you preferred shop deals the most with. If your local dyno guy uses a Predator, buy the Predator, etc.
1. The C&L Intake is about the same price as most of the others, intake for intake. The price of "$749" sounds high, but understand that this price is a combo pack that includes the tuner. If you add the tuner to any other CAI such as the JLT (Which I belive makes slightly more power than the C&L), or Steeda, or WMS, etc. the price is about the same. (if not higher in the case of the WMS).
Speaking of which, I think that the "Ram-Air" concept of the WMS intake is a bit more marketing buzz than anything else. "Ram Air" is a popular term that gets people excited when they hear it. But the truth is that a TRUE ram air system is not only difficult to design and implement (and sorry, but the WMS intake is NOT a true ram air system) but even when properly implemented the performance gains are not that much as one might think (perhaps 5% HP gain) and only kick in at HIGH speeds (100+ MPH). 99% of so-called "Ram Air Systems" are for looks. If you'd like to learn more, I suggest reading Motorcycle Turbocharging, Supercharging, and Nitrous Oxide by J. Haile. Yes, the book is mainly about motorcycles, but the technical discussions are relevant to any 4-stroke engine.
2. It is my understanding that the tests performed in the aforementined article from 5.0 Mustangs & Super Fords includes tuning in all cases, wether or not the "CAI Kit" comes with the tuner or not.
3. All of the hand-held tuners such as the SCT, Diablosport, Predator, etc. do the same thing. You don't have to have a Steeda tuner in order to install the CMCP. You can tune for that mod with any of the tuners, and you can install those parts in conjunction with any CAI.
4. Most of the big-name shops that sell tuners, etc, will provide their tuning expertise for free when you buy a tuner from them. For example, Brenspeed, Evolution, Bamachips, etc, will all give you excellent canned tunes at no charge when you buy the tuner from them, regardless of brand. Note that when you buy a CAI/Tuner, etc, you're not just buying the raw parts. You are buying the expertise of those who are providing the tunes. Of course, a custom Dyno tune for your car is the best. But, lacking that a good quality canned tune is a must. My advice is to buy whichever CAI kit (and other mods) that you like the best, but buy the tuner that you preferred shop deals the most with. If your local dyno guy uses a Predator, buy the Predator, etc.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 209
From:
RE: Intakes??
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
A few comments to add here:
1. The C&L Intake is about the same price as most of the others, intake for intake. The price of "$749" sounds high, but understand that this price is a combo pack that includes the tuner. If you add the tuner to any other CAI such as the JLT (Which I belive makes slightly more power than the C&L), or Steeda, or WMS, etc. the price is about the same. (if not higher in the case of the WMS).
Speaking of which, I think that the "Ram-Air" concept of the WMS intake is a bit more marketing buzz than anything else. "Ram Air" is a popular term that gets people excited when they hear it. But the truth is that a TRUE ram air system is not only difficult to design and implement (and sorry, but the WMS intake is NOT a true ram air system) but even when properly implemented the performance gains are not that much as one might think (perhaps 5% HP gain) and only kick in at HIGH speeds (100+ MPH). 99% of so-called "Ram Air Systems" are for looks. If you'd like to learn more, I suggest reading Motorcycle Turbocharging, Supercharging, and Nitrous Oxide by J. Haile. Yes, the book is mainly about motorcycles, but the technical discussions are relevant to any 4-stroke engine.
2. It is my understanding that the tests performed in the aforementined article from 5.0 Mustangs & Super Fords includes tuning in all cases, wether or not the "CAI Kit" comes with the tuner or not.
3. All of the hand-held tuners such as the SCT, Diablosport, Predator, etc. do the same thing. You don't have to have a Steeda tuner in order to install the CMCP. You can tune for that mod with any of the tuners, and you can install those parts in conjunction with any CAI.
4. Most of the big-name shops that sell tuners, etc, will provide their tuning expertise for free when you buy a tuner from them. For example, Brenspeed, Evolution, Bamachips, etc, will all give you excellent canned tunes at no charge when you buy the tuner from them, regardless of brand. Note that when you buy a CAI/Tuner, etc, you're not just buying the raw parts. You are buying the expertise of those who are providing the tunes. Of course, a custom Dyno tune for your car is the best. But, lacking that a good quality canned tune is a must. My advice is to buy whichever CAI kit (and other mods) that you like the best, but buy the tuner that you preferred shop deals the most with. If your local dyno guy uses a Predator, buy the Predator, etc.
A few comments to add here:
1. The C&L Intake is about the same price as most of the others, intake for intake. The price of "$749" sounds high, but understand that this price is a combo pack that includes the tuner. If you add the tuner to any other CAI such as the JLT (Which I belive makes slightly more power than the C&L), or Steeda, or WMS, etc. the price is about the same. (if not higher in the case of the WMS).
Speaking of which, I think that the "Ram-Air" concept of the WMS intake is a bit more marketing buzz than anything else. "Ram Air" is a popular term that gets people excited when they hear it. But the truth is that a TRUE ram air system is not only difficult to design and implement (and sorry, but the WMS intake is NOT a true ram air system) but even when properly implemented the performance gains are not that much as one might think (perhaps 5% HP gain) and only kick in at HIGH speeds (100+ MPH). 99% of so-called "Ram Air Systems" are for looks. If you'd like to learn more, I suggest reading Motorcycle Turbocharging, Supercharging, and Nitrous Oxide by J. Haile. Yes, the book is mainly about motorcycles, but the technical discussions are relevant to any 4-stroke engine.
2. It is my understanding that the tests performed in the aforementined article from 5.0 Mustangs & Super Fords includes tuning in all cases, wether or not the "CAI Kit" comes with the tuner or not.
3. All of the hand-held tuners such as the SCT, Diablosport, Predator, etc. do the same thing. You don't have to have a Steeda tuner in order to install the CMCP. You can tune for that mod with any of the tuners, and you can install those parts in conjunction with any CAI.
4. Most of the big-name shops that sell tuners, etc, will provide their tuning expertise for free when you buy a tuner from them. For example, Brenspeed, Evolution, Bamachips, etc, will all give you excellent canned tunes at no charge when you buy the tuner from them, regardless of brand. Note that when you buy a CAI/Tuner, etc, you're not just buying the raw parts. You are buying the expertise of those who are providing the tunes. Of course, a custom Dyno tune for your car is the best. But, lacking that a good quality canned tune is a must. My advice is to buy whichever CAI kit (and other mods) that you like the best, but buy the tuner that you preferred shop deals the most with. If your local dyno guy uses a Predator, buy the Predator, etc.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
http://bamachips.com/store/index.php...products_id=16
05-06 Mustang GT JLT Intake and Xcalibrator 2 COMBO
05-06 Mustang GT JLT Intake and Xcalibrator 2 COMBO
larger image Starting at: $559.00
Model: JLTX2GTCOMBO
I think you can even get cheaper, closer to 500 bucks. Not the $750 Crazy Al says.
4th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,471
From: California
RE: Intakes??
Hi drbobvs,
You had something wrong in your installation of the CAI or tune assumming that the dyno operator performed the runs equally and used the same correction methods. I say this because I've personally seen several dyno runs (and numberous dyno sheets run on the same dyno from other S197GT's to back them up), from several different S197GT's of both the original Steeda 85mm MAF version and the original aluminum tubed C&L CAI designs and both consistently made the same RWHP within the margin of error of the dyno. The Steeda CAI kitted cars both used the old canned R12 93 octane tune mildly hand tweaked with the Predator tuner box, NOT a custom dyno derived tune. The C&L cars all used the same in-house chassis dyno developed custom tune for 91 octane fuel. The shop was an SCT dealer/tuner and also wanted to sell me the C&L as they did not sell Steeda equipment at that time. The best peak power number I saw on my own car using standard correction was 293RWHP on the old Steeda CAI and canned R12 tune, obviously this was a Dynojet dyno. I have no doubt that with the 90mm MAF and R26 tunes the car would show at least 3-4RWHP better peak power and much better midrange torque based on my own experience with the updated 90mm MAF and latest Predator R26 firmware. But I guess there are many possibilties and as they say, YMMV.
Cheers
ORIGINAL: drbobvs
My experience:
Steeda CAI+Predator 93 tune=272rwhp 6/20/05
C&L CAI+SCT2 93 Evo tune=290rwhp 6/4/06
C&L CAI+SCT2 93 Brenspeed tune=293rwhp 6/4/06
My experience:
Steeda CAI+Predator 93 tune=272rwhp 6/20/05
C&L CAI+SCT2 93 Evo tune=290rwhp 6/4/06
C&L CAI+SCT2 93 Brenspeed tune=293rwhp 6/4/06
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 354
From: Stamford, CT
RE: Intakes??
The main drawback that I see with the WMS is the fact that you have to cut a wiring harness to extend the sensor to the middle of the engine compartment, so if you are going to bring your car in for service and you need to switch back to the stock air box their is no way that you can disguise the fact that you have cut the wiring harness.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,031
From: Babylon, NY
RE: Intakes??
Yeah Chip,
It was the 85mm one and it came with the tune from steeda. I think it was just a poor canned tune b/c it was running over 14:1 A/F in the that form. The CAI itself semmed to ba quality piece. I just canned (Pardon the pun) the whole thing b/c I wanted to switch to SCT2. At that time you couldn't adjust the auto tranny w/ the predator.
Rob
It was the 85mm one and it came with the tune from steeda. I think it was just a poor canned tune b/c it was running over 14:1 A/F in the that form. The CAI itself semmed to ba quality piece. I just canned (Pardon the pun) the whole thing b/c I wanted to switch to SCT2. At that time you couldn't adjust the auto tranny w/ the predator.
Rob
4th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,471
From: California
RE: Intakes??
Hi drbobvs,
Yea, that automatic trans issue was a BIG PITA for those with automatics. My inital R12 tune was also going lean on top but that was easy to fix with the Predator tuner and was addresed in the later revisions of the Pedator firmware. The latest Steeda specific Predator firmware is clearly the best so far though I wish that Diablo would release the SCT Pro-Tuner software package equivalent for the Predator line. I was interested in switching to SCT just for the Pro-Tuner Package until R26 came out.
Cheers/Chip
ORIGINAL: drbobvs
Yeah Chip,
It was the 85mm one and it came with the tune from steeda. I think it was just a poor canned tune b/c it was running over 14:1 A/F in the that form. The CAI itself semmed to ba quality piece. I just canned (Pardon the pun) the whole thing b/c I wanted to switch to SCT2. At that time you couldn't adjust the auto tranny w/ the predator.
Rob
Yeah Chip,
It was the 85mm one and it came with the tune from steeda. I think it was just a poor canned tune b/c it was running over 14:1 A/F in the that form. The CAI itself semmed to ba quality piece. I just canned (Pardon the pun) the whole thing b/c I wanted to switch to SCT2. At that time you couldn't adjust the auto tranny w/ the predator.
Rob
5th Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,235
From:
RE: Intakes??
ORIGINAL: Driver72
Well, in all fairness, that old test they didn't have the Ram Air Shield on then so
the WMS unit did heat up quite a bit.
Take a look at the WMS unit with the Ram Air Heat Shield on.
There is no way it's sucking in hot air from the engine with this on.
http://www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/05hvi.htm
Read what they say about not needing a tune.
Plus even in that magazine test the C&L was by far the most expensive
at $749 with the Predator and still it only improved power about the same as
many of the other intakes did by themselves...without a tune!
Am I missing something else?
Well, in all fairness, that old test they didn't have the Ram Air Shield on then so
the WMS unit did heat up quite a bit.
Take a look at the WMS unit with the Ram Air Heat Shield on.
There is no way it's sucking in hot air from the engine with this on.
http://www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/05hvi.htm
Read what they say about not needing a tune.
Plus even in that magazine test the C&L was by far the most expensive
at $749 with the Predator and still it only improved power about the same as
many of the other intakes did by themselves...without a tune!
Am I missing something else?
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