traction bars
08-30-2006, 02:27 AM
#11
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RE: traction bars
Here's a couple of pics of the coil spring version....
[IMG]local://upfiles/15493/CF73DBC179F446F9AE59324A2B6299D4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/15493/F93DEE1B18B94BE9AA08E069A187FE6B.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/15493/CF73DBC179F446F9AE59324A2B6299D4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/15493/F93DEE1B18B94BE9AA08E069A187FE6B.jpg[/IMG]
08-30-2006, 04:20 AM
#13
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RE: traction bars
Yeah, that's what he meant. They used to make those same traction bars for coil spring cars as well. The attachment was different of course, they don't simply clamp onto the leaf springs like those in the pic. I had a set of them on a coil spring GTO, but can't remember exactly how they mounted (it's been a LONG time). I think they clamped onto the differential and had links that extended up to the forward control arm mounts. It was the same concept as the leaf spring version, under acceleration the bumpers would limit how much the differential could twist. I also had a set of ladder bars on another Pontiac with coil springs, those looked awesome and worked great, but they were noisy.
08-31-2006, 03:15 AM
#14
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RE: traction bars
personally if I were a patient man i would wait for "lift bars", which are control arms and traction bars in one. Basicly the are control arms with adjustable front mounting points. My plan for now is tubes since they are out, and hopefully add t-bars when they come out
08-31-2006, 11:00 AM
#15
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RE: traction bars
The rear-end on our cars is very well designed. Unfortunatley, we are saddled with some poor quality parts, like the LCAs.
However, if you take the stock rear end, add tubular LCAs, upper CA mount, and LCA relocation brackets then you have functionally the same thing as a 4-link rear. You can adjust your instant center the same way you can on a proper 4-link. "traction bars" or other "band-aid fix" devices simply aren't needed.
However, if you take the stock rear end, add tubular LCAs, upper CA mount, and LCA relocation brackets then you have functionally the same thing as a 4-link rear. You can adjust your instant center the same way you can on a proper 4-link. "traction bars" or other "band-aid fix" devices simply aren't needed.
09-01-2006, 02:13 AM
#16
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RE: traction bars
you can never have too much traction - the more power you make the more you need. to get into the 10's you need more than just control arms. lift bars, traction bars, whatever, sooner or later your gonna get wheel hop again.
why hook up good on dot tires when you can launch at 6000rpm on slicks? lol
why hook up good on dot tires when you can launch at 6000rpm on slicks? lol
09-01-2006, 10:13 AM
#17
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RE: traction bars
Oh, I agree you can't have too much traction. But perhaps my prior post was unclear.
In my experience, "traction bars" like we're talking about in this thread are a cheap "fix" for guys who want more traction off the line, BUT who do not want or need a TRUE race suspension like ladder bars or a 4-link.
I am unsure it is even possible to incorporate something like a "traction bar" into the S197 suspension in such a way as to actually provide any sort of benefit. On a more "traditional" style musclecar--sure thing. But on this car--I don't see it. Granted the factory components are cheaply made, but with aftermarket replacements the factory design is functionally the same as a 4-link. Not only are "traction bars" not needed, but the very concept of using them on this car doesn't make much sense. To me, wanting to put traction bars on an S197 is like like saying "I want to put these $19.99 Monroe shocks on my Ferrari to improve handling". While that might be an upgrade on a '63 Buick, it is NOT going to be an upgrade on that Ferrari--if they even fit. Traction bars were a decent bolt-on traction aid to mild strip cars of years past....but even then the serious guys ditched them in favor of ladder bars or 4-links anyway. You've already got the better option (4-link) from the factory.
Rodeoflyer, if you don't mind me saying so, I think you belive that "traction bar = better suspension". On older cars, it did. On this car? Er...nope. You said you were interested in "lift bars". Again, those don't exist on our cars. But, like I said in my previous post there is a functional equivalent that does. The BMR "lower control arm relocation brackets" has a set of different holes for your LCAs. This lets you adjust instant center just like you can with "lift bars" or a 4-link.
My advice: stick with the stock design but upgrade the weak factory pieces with higher quality aftermarket. I have met a few guys running outrageous horsepower and puttting down some killer times (in the 10's) and none of them have "traction bars" or anything like that.
In my experience, "traction bars" like we're talking about in this thread are a cheap "fix" for guys who want more traction off the line, BUT who do not want or need a TRUE race suspension like ladder bars or a 4-link.
I am unsure it is even possible to incorporate something like a "traction bar" into the S197 suspension in such a way as to actually provide any sort of benefit. On a more "traditional" style musclecar--sure thing. But on this car--I don't see it. Granted the factory components are cheaply made, but with aftermarket replacements the factory design is functionally the same as a 4-link. Not only are "traction bars" not needed, but the very concept of using them on this car doesn't make much sense. To me, wanting to put traction bars on an S197 is like like saying "I want to put these $19.99 Monroe shocks on my Ferrari to improve handling". While that might be an upgrade on a '63 Buick, it is NOT going to be an upgrade on that Ferrari--if they even fit. Traction bars were a decent bolt-on traction aid to mild strip cars of years past....but even then the serious guys ditched them in favor of ladder bars or 4-links anyway. You've already got the better option (4-link) from the factory.
Rodeoflyer, if you don't mind me saying so, I think you belive that "traction bar = better suspension". On older cars, it did. On this car? Er...nope. You said you were interested in "lift bars". Again, those don't exist on our cars. But, like I said in my previous post there is a functional equivalent that does. The BMR "lower control arm relocation brackets" has a set of different holes for your LCAs. This lets you adjust instant center just like you can with "lift bars" or a 4-link.
My advice: stick with the stock design but upgrade the weak factory pieces with higher quality aftermarket. I have met a few guys running outrageous horsepower and puttting down some killer times (in the 10's) and none of them have "traction bars" or anything like that.
09-01-2006, 07:43 PM
#18
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RE: traction bars
nop Al were on 2 different pages in the same book I think lol. The rear suspension in our cars is pretty much the same as the dare I say "older" fox-body cars. The only real improvement/change is the panhard rod. My traction bars were not a "cheap fix". They were in fact specificly designed for the 79-93 stangs. Upgrading to better control arms (mine have been ordered) REDUCES wheel hop due to flexing of the control arms. They will not eliminate it. You are right about the lowers with adjustable mounting points - which is exactly what "lift bars" are lol.
Basicly my opinion is that they are a valuable component in an all-inclusive "system". No single part is gonna pull the front wheels up. I can tell you they work, and not just on "mild" street/strip cars. My 92' GT went 10.80's with a 150 shot of gas and a stock bottom end (except for the cam). They worked well.
IF they come out with them for our cars, they will HELP, but no one component is gonna make the tires stick
Basicly my opinion is that they are a valuable component in an all-inclusive "system". No single part is gonna pull the front wheels up. I can tell you they work, and not just on "mild" street/strip cars. My 92' GT went 10.80's with a 150 shot of gas and a stock bottom end (except for the cam). They worked well.
IF they come out with them for our cars, they will HELP, but no one component is gonna make the tires stick
09-01-2006, 08:49 PM
#19
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RE: traction bars
ORIGINAL: WildRed
you may be refering to a torque arm??? they bolt on to the diff housing.
Yeah, that's what he meant. They used to make those same traction bars for coil spring cars as well. The attachment was different of course, they don't simply clamp onto the leaf springs like those in the pic. I had a set of them on a coil spring GTO, but can't remember exactly how they mounted (it's been a LONG time). I think they clamped onto the differential and had links that extended up to the forward control arm mounts. It was the same concept as the leaf spring version, under acceleration the bumpers would limit how much the differential could twist. I also had a set of ladder bars on another Pontiac with coil springs, those looked awesome and worked great, but they were noisy.
I don't know if this is clear from my posts, but the pictures I posted are not Mustang traction bars, they are GM coil spring traction bars. I only posted them to show that indeed, companies do make the slapper type bars for coil spring suspensions. They're kind of a poor man's fix for traction problems, but a lot of people like the looks of them. I think it would be neat if someone made them for the new Mustangs just because the slappers are so retro looking
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