!!!MAX HP!!!!!! for 3v motors
07-22-2008, 09:22 AM
#13
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Orleans
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RE: !!!MAX HP!!!!!! for 3v motors
ORIGINAL: Brian_Zinchuk
I thought the block was good for around 600 whp, but the internals like the rod in that picture were the thing that need to be replaced after 450 whp. If I'm not mistaken the pistons and rods are the weakest part of the engine followed by the heads and cams. Can anyone confirm all this that I've said. So if you go forged internals then your safe to go over the 500 whp mark.
I thought the block was good for around 600 whp, but the internals like the rod in that picture were the thing that need to be replaced after 450 whp. If I'm not mistaken the pistons and rods are the weakest part of the engine followed by the heads and cams. Can anyone confirm all this that I've said. So if you go forged internals then your safe to go over the 500 whp mark.
07-22-2008, 11:38 AM
#15
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
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RE: !!!MAX HP!!!!!! for 3v motors
450RWHP is definately NOT the max you can get from a 3 valve. Not even close. That is just some arbitrary number Mustang forum people like to throw out there.
There are lots and lotsof people well in to the 500s. JDM has a car at 565RWHP.
I have been over 500 for long time. Lots of folks running 12 PSI without incident.
Dont buy the BS, it is all about avoiding detonation and not over-revving. If you avoid detonation there is little risk of throwing a rod. Even a forged rotating asembly will succumb to detonation.
That means nothing. What RPM did it let loose? What was the timing advance? What octane fuel? What was the air/fuel?
Unless you can answer those questions posting pictures of a broken rod is just meaningless.
You can not say why it let go.
There are lots and lotsof people well in to the 500s. JDM has a car at 565RWHP.
I have been over 500 for long time. Lots of folks running 12 PSI without incident.
Dont buy the BS, it is all about avoiding detonation and not over-revving. If you avoid detonation there is little risk of throwing a rod. Even a forged rotating asembly will succumb to detonation.
This came from a stock 3v motor tuned by a popular Texas shop for a young pvt in Iraq. His wife drove his car 30 miles from the shop and boom... The popular Texas shop tuned the car to 547whp (procharger)
Unless you can answer those questions posting pictures of a broken rod is just meaningless.
You can not say why it let go.
07-22-2008, 02:34 PM
#16
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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RE: !!!MAX HP!!!!!! for 3v motors
ORIGINAL: super05mustangGT
What is the max horse power for the 3v motor. I want to do some more modding but don't know how much room i have before i have to put forged internals.
thanks for your help.
What is the max horse power for the 3v motor. I want to do some more modding but don't know how much room i have before i have to put forged internals.
thanks for your help.
07-22-2008, 02:40 PM
#17
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Memphis
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RE: !!!MAX HP!!!!!! for 3v motors
Isn't that the truth z, if someone doesn't know what they are doing its relatively easy to do something like that once you start talking supercharged motors. But to be honest i'd rather not push my boundaries when it comes to a short block, i'm all for power but safety should always be in the back of your mind, and these blocks aren't cheep either.
07-22-2008, 02:46 PM
#18
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RE: !!!MAX HP!!!!!! for 3v motors
Yep, not too long ago I would have said 450 at the wheels is about the safe limit, but recently more and more people are putting down 470-500 rwhp without incident. I know many a JDM car running over 10 psi, usually 12-14 psi and they haven't lost a stock rotating assembly. Based on my experience with their Email tunes, their tunes are conservative both in timing and in AF ratio and I believe that is part of the reason.
Here's an excerpt from another forum from Chris at JDm speaking about the Saleen SC system they tune
Here's an excerpt from another forum from Chris at JDm speaking about the Saleen SC system they tune
Anything below 3.20/stock lower I would really prefer to see on the dyno or had a dyno on the car in the past to work off of so we can be really aggressive with it.
3.00/10% is probably the most aggressive I would go with on a stock motor assuming you have the fuel system, 60s, new air or BA2400, and no other bolt ons (gt500 tb, electric w/p, blah blah blah). I'd be comfortable right around the 500-510 rwhp mark is what I guess I'm saying. Ask me 3 months ago, I would have said 480-490, but we've been pushing stuff farther and farther, I don't think we've found the limit of the stock motor yet being as how we have yet had one to fail.
As we pass the 3.20 pulley, if you're only doing mail order tunes, Jim is just going to be really really conservative with the timing. Adding more boost he is only going to pull more out of the timing. On the dyno he can be a lot more aggressive with it. But once you get up into those numbers anyhow, you start to be able to see big 100HP or so gains from a built longblock. Come into the shop and ask Jim Sr., whose opinion is really the only one that matters around here, and he'll probably tell you that you are wasting your time past the 3.20/stock lower combo, that you should just man up and buy a forged longblock, because your HP/$ spent ratio really drops after that combo because of what he has to do to make it safe. Throw some race gas in there and dyno tune it, and it's a different story.
3.00/10% is probably the most aggressive I would go with on a stock motor assuming you have the fuel system, 60s, new air or BA2400, and no other bolt ons (gt500 tb, electric w/p, blah blah blah). I'd be comfortable right around the 500-510 rwhp mark is what I guess I'm saying. Ask me 3 months ago, I would have said 480-490, but we've been pushing stuff farther and farther, I don't think we've found the limit of the stock motor yet being as how we have yet had one to fail.
As we pass the 3.20 pulley, if you're only doing mail order tunes, Jim is just going to be really really conservative with the timing. Adding more boost he is only going to pull more out of the timing. On the dyno he can be a lot more aggressive with it. But once you get up into those numbers anyhow, you start to be able to see big 100HP or so gains from a built longblock. Come into the shop and ask Jim Sr., whose opinion is really the only one that matters around here, and he'll probably tell you that you are wasting your time past the 3.20/stock lower combo, that you should just man up and buy a forged longblock, because your HP/$ spent ratio really drops after that combo because of what he has to do to make it safe. Throw some race gas in there and dyno tune it, and it's a different story.
07-22-2008, 05:00 PM
#19
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,182
RE: !!!MAX HP!!!!!! for 3v motors
I see your point but how many stock shortblocks are running 547whp and not tearing rods? Can you prove a stock rotating assembly with hyperbullshyt pistons can hold up to anywhere near 550whp @ whatever rpm with whatever timing? Is this actually your stance on this discussion? Honestly the world will never know... The timing issue got a "it's yours once you drive it off the lot" response from the shop owner. rpm? Woman driver... JDM is in the minority on this subject, I'd be weary of letting them touch my car..
ORIGINAL: zkiller
That means nothing. What RPM did it let loose? What was the timing advance? What octane fuel? What was the air/fuel?
Unless you can answer those questions posting pictures of a broken rod is just meaningless.
You can not say why it let go.
That means nothing. What RPM did it let loose? What was the timing advance? What octane fuel? What was the air/fuel?
Unless you can answer those questions posting pictures of a broken rod is just meaningless.
You can not say why it let go.
