ahddm

What do you mean by good handling? because if the car can go straight and keep it through a corner it has good handling to me and if your reffering to oversteer theres ways to take care of that to.

BLUE OVAL NUT

This is my observation : Saleen/ Roush/ Steeda/ Kenny Brown/ has contributed to the mustang as a whole immensely. Being a fan of Saleen from his first models in '84 and later on with efforts in SCCA racing that gave them many championships '87 etc. Roush expertise in motorsports speaks for itself. Steeda has been in buisness since '88 and has contributed signifacantly also. This being said Ford obviously thinks so too being that they have used them for R&D and even helped with the Ford GT. I might not like the elevated price's but i can comprehend that they are a small manufacturer of specialty cars that will always be pricey. I remember a case where Turbo magazine had a '87 mustang project car that was turboed , the rearend always had lift and the topend mph was limited due to the factory rear valance. Saleen to the rescue with his version problem solved. JMO

lemmer

scg87,
I have to disagree with you on multiple points, however, at first could you, please, define handling and cornering as you understand it.

I do not know about saleens, but as far as handling (pretty much point the car in the direction you want it to go and it will?) roush stage 3, i think that's the one was used in testing on TopGear, has proved to be better then gt500 on the track.

I definitely has to disagree with you that 'If you want a Mustang for good HANDLING, you're pretty much screwed.' It is very possible to make a very competitive car.
Take rolex 24 grand am series...
or
as accidentally came across video of griggs racing's GR40TT doing a Virginia City Hill Climb. Car went as far as 1.5 gs lateral... that is insanely impressive, at least to me and a fellow s2000 enthusiast (that does go to tracks).

LilRoush

Wow, that is the biggest failure of a claim I've seen on this site in a long time.
The GT500 is a step above the GT Mustangs. That's about it.

I'd go back and learn about what Saleen/Roush/Steeda cars are doing next time you go out on a limb. Saleen Extremes are top notch cars, far beyond the stock abilities of the stock GT500. Roush Tack Pak cars will hand the GT500 it's tail lights. The high end Steeda cars are amazing around the road courses, and it would take a lot of upgrades on the GT500 to keep up. The race prepped cars put out by these companies (and similar) are refined macines that are outstanding at what they do.


And just for fun... when you toss out the phrasse "ANYTHING with a Roush/Saleen/ badge on the front"... my Roush V6 has beat down stock GT500s in the road courses I've been on. So be careful when wording things.

roush 427R

I'd put my 427R against any stock/lightly modified GT500 on the road course and guarantee a victory for me. 1/4 mile the GT500 would probaly beat my 427R, but not a chance on street or road courses.

scg87

Okay people, listen up, because I'm only going to say this in this ONE post- handling and cornering are NOT the same thing. Jeez, some of you say you go to road course outings, and yet you do not understand this?!?!? Cornering is just that- a car's cornering abilities. Their grip levels, such as aspects that can be measured in a slalom or on a skidpad are what defines a cars cornering. Handling is more of the characteristics of HOW it corners and how it FEELS. Things like how the steering communicates w/ you, how the chassis gives feedback, etc. Like I said, anything can be made to corner well, including Mustangs. Usually all it takes is good tires and lowered/upgraded suspension. Good handling goes much more in depth than the sum of it's components. Mustangs can be made to corner well, so much so that they can turn good laptimes or be competitive in a race series. That doesn't mean they handle well by default. Hell, my 3,800lb GTO can be made to corner well, but it won't handle well. That's just how things are. The chassis isn't stiff/tight enough. The steering and suspension geometry isn't there, the list goes on and on. I don't know how much more explicit I can be in my description. Go drive a Mustang or F-body w/ coilovers, sway bars, strut bars, weight reduction, gummy tires, upgraded brakes, and then drive a 100% stock Porsche Boxster or BMW M3 immediately afterwards. The difference is immeasurable. There's no comparison. The worked over F-bod or Stang might make better numbers, but it just WON'T handle the same.

scg87

NO. Saying a GT500 is a step above the GT is failure. On an epic scale. You used the top-spec examples from Saleen and Roush to compare. But yet you fail to mention how much they cost. Nice. How much does an Extreme cost?? $80K. A GT500 for 45K w/ 35K invested in it would rape the ever-loving **** out of that car. On a road course or down the 1/4. How about a Trak Pack Roush?? $58K. And w/ only 435hp, a road course is the ONLY place it'd show a GT500 it's taillights. And again, put the price difference into a GT500, and it's game over. AGAIN. Now how about those garden variety Roush's and Saleens?? GT's w/ a bunch of overpriced accessories. All your paying for is the name. It's the same deal in other circles as well. NISMO's parts for 350Z's are overpriced and underperforming. You save an ***-load of money and get better results by doing it through different aftermarket companies. Your Roush V6 beating GT500's, even around a track, is a result of driver error on his part. Equal drivers, do you think the same thing would've happened??

You guys wanna keep going toe-to-toe w/ me, that's fine. I can do this all night. Because all most of you are doing is misconstruing my words, and picking and choosing facts to support your own claims in an effort to rebuke what I'm saying. And then I'm just gonna come back along, and bring up all the things you omitted in order to try to make your case. It's so funny how some of you will go off on tangents and grasp at straws just to make out w/ your pride intact. But in the process, you downplay and bash on some of the very vehicles to which this forum is dedicated. How ironic.

LilRoush

Hey, you are the one that said a GT500 will beat ANYTHING with a Roush or Saleen badge. Next time qualify your claims... like a GT500 ca be any ENTRY level Roush or Saleen. Funny how suddenly YOU have to go back and add 'oh yeah, well cost bla bla bla' after the fact. Don't call out someone else on misleading info when YOU did it. Why does hp per price matter. It still wipes the road course with your almighty Shelby. Paying for a NAME? How about great performance parts and a racing history? But isn't that EXACTLY what you are doing in SHELBY? Bunch of overpriced parts right from the dealership if you ask me.... and at over sticker price. Pot, let me introduce you to kettle.

And the GT500 is ecactly ONE STEP higher on the Ford Mustang scale: V6 to GT to GT500. Is there one I missed?

I haven't personally driven the new Extreme, but my Roush can corner AND handle well. I love the way my feels and how it translates the road to my body. Same can be said about the new ones I've had out. They do exactly what they are told, and they give you great driver feed back. When was the last time you drove one? Ever?

Equal drivers between my Roush V6 and a GT500 - my car still wins. Sorry to crush your little bubble. Who said they weren't equal drivers in the first place? Don't make that ever so popular assumption becasue it's a V6 it's a 150 rwhp wanna be with drop springs.

We aren't trying to 'down play' the very vehicles this site is dedicated to lke you claim. We are pointing out ups and downs of them. This is for ALL Mustangs. And pretty sure the GT500, Cobras, Saleens, Roushs, Steedas, GTs, Machs, Bullitts, Foxes, Classics and all aothers variations of the Mustang are what this site is dedicated to. Not just the Shelby.

scg87

1) I didn't say 'anything'. I said 'NEARLY anything'. Stop putting words in my mouth. Go back and read the post. And you said yourself the only ones that would outperform a GT500 is their top-level cars. Considering how many entry-level offerings they make, I'd say that qualifies as NEARLY ANYTHING.

2) Yeah, you're paying for a name. NISMO has loads of racing history too. And?? That doesn't necesarilly exempt them from being capable of making inferior or overpriced parts. When they've got guys like you taking up arms to defend them, they can get away w/ it because they know they have loyalists. That's how the market works. I didn't say they DO make crap parts, just that you can do a better job yourself w/ a combination of different brands' products.

3) The GT500 is a step above the Mustang GT. But that's NOT how you were referring to it, and we both know it. You made that statement to belittle and condescend the Shelby down to the point where it's 'just an upgraded GT'. If ANYONE else came on this forum and said, you guys would rip them a new *******. You know you would.

4) And now you're going to resort to questioning if I've ever driven a Mustang??? Haha. Here's a quick rundown for ya- '08 GT manual, '07 GT manual, '07 GT Auto, '06 Saleen S281 manual, '05 V6 manual, an '03 Roush Stage 2, '04 Mach 1's auto and manual, too many New Edge GT's to count, an '03 Termie, an '01 Cobra, my buddie's '98 Cobra. And guess what?? Not a SINGLE one of them handled well. None. The Saleen and Roush both cornered pretty well, but that's it. You can only do so much w/ an archaic, solid-axle setup. Accept that. And you know what allows me to say those Mustangs didn't handle well?? The fact that I've driven numerous BMW's, Audis (owned one), Corvettes, a few Vipers, a few Porsches, S2K's, Z cars etc. THOSE cars handle well. The feedback your car gives you??? From the sounds of it, you wouldn't know chassis/steering feedback if bit you in the *** and put you in the wall.

5) And yeah, I'm going to say it. Equal drivers, no way would your car beat a GT500 on a roadcourse. 150rwhp is not going to keep the car out in front now matter how much suspension work the car has. An autoX course; MAYBE, but still questionable.

We can go back and forth w/ this as long as you'd like. Most Roushes and Saleens are overrated. Period. If you've got the cash to throw around, and want a flashy or rare Mustang, go for it. It's a free country and people can do w/ they damn well please. But I think they're overrated, and they don't really impress me. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. If you don't like it, you don't have to read my posts. As for the handling debate though, there's really no arguing that one. I guess it depends on one's definition of handling, but the real accepted definition of it makes a clear-cut distinction between simple cornering ability. They are not the same. They often times go hand in hand, but not always.

LilRoush

Ok, fair enough. I did over read the 'nearly' wording.

2) You made fun of Roush/Saleen cars for being over priced name brands, yet defended Shelby... it's the same thing.

3) Like I said, the GT500 is a step above the GT. That IS how I meant it. I didn't say "Upgraded GT" - now who's putting words in someones mouth?

4) I didn't question if you had ever driven a mustang (again, adding words???). I asked if you had driven the cars you were trash talking. Which, according to the list you posted, you haven't.

5) Again with the word adding. Did I EVER say my car was 150 rwhp? No. (What is that 3times now YOU are putting words in my mouth? pot/kettle/pot/kettle) YES, my car wipes the track with stock GT500s all day long. Deny it all you want. Of course a 150 rwhp Mustang isn't going to keep up on just suspension. Anyone would be foolish to think so. My car sat in the top 5 highest hp V6 Mustangs in the country for a long time. With the new set up motor in, it will be back there again.

End section - Yeah, you're right. Some Roush/ Saleen cars tend to be over rated. But no more (and probably less) than the GT500 you nut swing on. With prices way over sticker and with Shelby's questionable cheating history in racing, I'd rather not own a car with that name on it. But that is just me. Especially when you can get a new Saleen or Roush under sticker.