Front End Noise
02-16-2007, 01:27 PM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Front End Noise
Well, sorry to report no news yet on the front end noise. I thought going to the owner would get a response but nothing yet. They got through to an engineer but wouldn't return the call. I figured if a couple people got responses maybe Ford is going to do something but since they've know about this problem for 3 years, I don't know. I hope the other threads were right and a fix is on the way.
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02-17-2007, 03:40 AM
#2
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: State Of Confusion
Posts: 1,199
RE: Front End Noise
Hey Jay, maybe this will help if you're talking about the same noise as the rest of us. Some call it thunking like me, others call it rattling, clunkingand so on. Check this thread, https://mustangforums.com/m_2313111/tm.htm
There's one other guy that is supposed to be putting new heavy duty strut mounts/bearings on his and report back on the results. Thing ishenow knows about the following 'see below' and he may be waiting until this SpringlikeI am for a fix to come out. If the noise you hear is the same as ours then it's enherrant and Ford knows about it.
Read below.
Hello all!
I spent the better part of today at my favorite dealer where I have made friends with some of the mech's and service manager as we all like to tell old autoshop war stories.
I had gone in today to have my new Ford posi-trac' differential installed on my V6 Pony. While they were at it I went ahead and let them install my new dual exhaust system from Pypes.
While I was hanging out with the guys, the service manager asked me how it's going with the clunking problem. I told him it's still there and I was about to come see him about it so we can get hold of Ford's engineering dept. and see if they are aware of it.
He has to log on to their exclusive dealer only assistance hotline. Waited for him to jump through all the hoops to get to the section where he fills out a form that asks specific questions regarding customer vehicle complaints.
Here's a typed copy of the Q&A. Enjoy and rejoice my friends! Help is on the way! Finally!
**************************
REQUEST FOR DETAILS:
DISCRIPTION OF VEHICLE CONCERN:
clunking noise over small road deflections at low speeds.
DIAGNOSIS PERFORMED:
visual inspection of all suspension components.
PARTS REPLACED:
front strut assemblies at earlier service visit.
QUESTION: WERE YOU ABLE TO VERIFY THE CONCERN?
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: Is there an appropriate pinpoint test in the WSM for this concern?
ANSWER: No
QUESTION: Was the pinpoint test followed?
ANSWER
TECH'S QUESTION:
information to assist in better diagnnosis of concern
HOTLINE RECOMENDATION
get off your fat enginering asses and come up with a fix for this friggin problem! < just kidding, I added that ;-).
(note, at this point the service manager clicks on send, waits a few seconds and Ford spits out a phone number for him to call. Evidently the number is for the specific person or team addressing this problem at Ford engineering.)
Then he's sent a LOG of the call and a summary of their conversation as written below.
CALL LOG:
CALLS TO HOTLINE FOR THIS VEHICLE (he entered my VIN and some other data at the beginning of the hoops)
1/16/07 12:15 PM - TECH SAID:
NOISE IN RIGHT FRONT OVER BUMPS AT LOW SPEED. THE STRUTS HAVE BEEN ISOLATED TO NOISE, COMPARES TO OTHER VEHICLES THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED IN THE PAST.
1/16/07 12:15 PM - HOTLINE RECOMENDED:
ADVISED DEALER THAT THE ISSUE IS BEING LOOKED INTO AT THE ENGINEERING LEVEL. CONVERTABLE MUSTANGS HAVE ALL THE SAME PARTS BUT DO NOT EXHIBIT THE NOISE, SO THEY ARE EVALUATING THE SUBFRAME CONNECTORS AS A POSSIBLE FIX AS WELL AS THE STRUT MOUNTS.
THESE ISSUES HAVE TO BE EVALUATED FOR ROBUST FIX AND CRASH TESTED, SO THE REPAIR MAY NOT BE IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE, BUT THE FIX IS COMING IN THE FORM OF A TSB OR SSM. THE ISSUE IS NOT STRUCTURAL AND IS ONLY COSMETIC AND IS NOT A SAFETY ISSUE. WAIT FORM MESSAGE TO MAKE REPAIRS.
THANK YOU!
END OF MESSAGE.
Now I talked with the service manager a bit more analysing what they were saying regarding it only being a cosmetic issue?
He said that they consider it so because it's nothing that is dangerous. It is an cosmetic issue because it is only an annoyance issue.
Well that makes sense to me as much as I hate to admit it but they are right.
He showed me a blueprint of the subframe to body connections. They are bolts with hard rubber bushings around them with a metal shaft up the middle as with most frame to body bushings on any vehicle. They are small ones, not the huge ones you see on other vehicles.
My theory is that the subframe is flexing to the degree that it allows a tiny bit of side play (normal as that's what the bushings are there for), but the side play is sufficient enough to be a concern or possible cause. The strut bearings are an obvious issue. No need for analyzation. If there is any end play in the bearing i.e. up and down play, it's going to thunk!
That's the story folks. Problem solved....almost!
Anyway, I'm happy that Ford is on top of it and we will soon see a TSB out on the issue with the correct and permanent fix!
Look forward to it I'd guess within the next few weeks to few months!
Wolfey2k
There's one other guy that is supposed to be putting new heavy duty strut mounts/bearings on his and report back on the results. Thing ishenow knows about the following 'see below' and he may be waiting until this SpringlikeI am for a fix to come out. If the noise you hear is the same as ours then it's enherrant and Ford knows about it.
Read below.
Hello all!
I spent the better part of today at my favorite dealer where I have made friends with some of the mech's and service manager as we all like to tell old autoshop war stories.
I had gone in today to have my new Ford posi-trac' differential installed on my V6 Pony. While they were at it I went ahead and let them install my new dual exhaust system from Pypes.
While I was hanging out with the guys, the service manager asked me how it's going with the clunking problem. I told him it's still there and I was about to come see him about it so we can get hold of Ford's engineering dept. and see if they are aware of it.
He has to log on to their exclusive dealer only assistance hotline. Waited for him to jump through all the hoops to get to the section where he fills out a form that asks specific questions regarding customer vehicle complaints.
Here's a typed copy of the Q&A. Enjoy and rejoice my friends! Help is on the way! Finally!
**************************
REQUEST FOR DETAILS:
DISCRIPTION OF VEHICLE CONCERN:
clunking noise over small road deflections at low speeds.
DIAGNOSIS PERFORMED:
visual inspection of all suspension components.
PARTS REPLACED:
front strut assemblies at earlier service visit.
QUESTION: WERE YOU ABLE TO VERIFY THE CONCERN?
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: Is there an appropriate pinpoint test in the WSM for this concern?
ANSWER: No
QUESTION: Was the pinpoint test followed?
ANSWER
TECH'S QUESTION:
information to assist in better diagnnosis of concern
HOTLINE RECOMENDATION
get off your fat enginering asses and come up with a fix for this friggin problem! < just kidding, I added that ;-).
(note, at this point the service manager clicks on send, waits a few seconds and Ford spits out a phone number for him to call. Evidently the number is for the specific person or team addressing this problem at Ford engineering.)
Then he's sent a LOG of the call and a summary of their conversation as written below.
CALL LOG:
CALLS TO HOTLINE FOR THIS VEHICLE (he entered my VIN and some other data at the beginning of the hoops)
1/16/07 12:15 PM - TECH SAID:
NOISE IN RIGHT FRONT OVER BUMPS AT LOW SPEED. THE STRUTS HAVE BEEN ISOLATED TO NOISE, COMPARES TO OTHER VEHICLES THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED IN THE PAST.
1/16/07 12:15 PM - HOTLINE RECOMENDED:
ADVISED DEALER THAT THE ISSUE IS BEING LOOKED INTO AT THE ENGINEERING LEVEL. CONVERTABLE MUSTANGS HAVE ALL THE SAME PARTS BUT DO NOT EXHIBIT THE NOISE, SO THEY ARE EVALUATING THE SUBFRAME CONNECTORS AS A POSSIBLE FIX AS WELL AS THE STRUT MOUNTS.
THESE ISSUES HAVE TO BE EVALUATED FOR ROBUST FIX AND CRASH TESTED, SO THE REPAIR MAY NOT BE IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE, BUT THE FIX IS COMING IN THE FORM OF A TSB OR SSM. THE ISSUE IS NOT STRUCTURAL AND IS ONLY COSMETIC AND IS NOT A SAFETY ISSUE. WAIT FORM MESSAGE TO MAKE REPAIRS.
THANK YOU!
END OF MESSAGE.
Now I talked with the service manager a bit more analysing what they were saying regarding it only being a cosmetic issue?
He said that they consider it so because it's nothing that is dangerous. It is an cosmetic issue because it is only an annoyance issue.
Well that makes sense to me as much as I hate to admit it but they are right.
He showed me a blueprint of the subframe to body connections. They are bolts with hard rubber bushings around them with a metal shaft up the middle as with most frame to body bushings on any vehicle. They are small ones, not the huge ones you see on other vehicles.
My theory is that the subframe is flexing to the degree that it allows a tiny bit of side play (normal as that's what the bushings are there for), but the side play is sufficient enough to be a concern or possible cause. The strut bearings are an obvious issue. No need for analyzation. If there is any end play in the bearing i.e. up and down play, it's going to thunk!
That's the story folks. Problem solved....almost!
Anyway, I'm happy that Ford is on top of it and we will soon see a TSB out on the issue with the correct and permanent fix!
Look forward to it I'd guess within the next few weeks to few months!
Wolfey2k
02-17-2007, 03:29 PM
#3
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 886
RE: Front End Noise
Hi, Thanks for the link to the early thread. But nobody has had a definate answer. Guys said sway bar but I totally removed mine and the noise (thunking & rattle) is still there. Others that replaced struts etc. didn't say if with stock struts or aftermarket. My car has 5000 miles and the noise is worse and both sides. First 1000 on the right then the left kicked in. One idea I want to try is to replace the fluid bushing on the rear of the control arms with a rubber one. But as everyone probably agrees Ford should fix it. But I have the stinking feeling since it's a noise issue not safety they might not give out the fix. I wish the Mustang Magazines would address the issue to put pressure on Ford. Guys that say they don't have the problem live in states with smooth roads. I went to Cape Cod for a few days and only noticed the noise a few times in a couple hundred miles, got back to Ct. (bad road state) and here's the noise. I live on a bumpy road and it drives me crazy. Winter doesn't help the roads either. Well, In the spring I'm going to replace the struts, upper bearings, control arm bushings with Heavy Duty aftermarket pieces. I'll get back to you guys with the results.
02-17-2007, 06:40 PM
#4
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: State Of Confusion
Posts: 1,199
RE: Front End Noise
Jay, I hear ya.
Listen, if you really want to get into it and figure out what's wrong on your own, I wouldn't throw money into hit or miss parts replacement. Wrong way to go.
Many have done this already with no real results.
The couple that got rid of their noise problem had lose sway bar links and got rid of the type of noise they would make if lose.
There are lots of parts that can cause noises if lose as we both know.
The primary suspected parts causing the thunking noise are the upper strut bearing. The stock bearing where it rotates is housed in plastic! Of all things Ford decided to use plastic for, that was a really dumb move on their part. The bearing is also a one use throw away part. I've read the mech's Ford spec's and instructions myself.
That's one weak link. The other and the primary cause of the noise are the through bolt bushings used to connect and hold the front sub frame to the body. They are the rear ones that bolt right up under the driver and passenger side floor boards. This is evidently where all the rattling etc. is coming from.
As it says in the tech update I provided you with, Ford says that convertables have all the same parts and don't rattle or thunk in so many words. I have yet to test drive a convertable to see if this is the case or not. It's winter time and with the constraints on my time I haven't had time to go test drive one myself.
This is something I intend to do but I also want to test drive it at my dealer and after I find out what Ford says is true, then I want to have them put it up on the lift so that my service manager and myself can inspect and see exactly what the difference is. Ford says that there is an addition of a cross member somewhere on the sub frame to body connections. We suspect this is keeping things from going rattle clunk clunk so I hope this is the case and after I see it, I will order that part and install it on my car.
I will of course then tell everybody that it's fixed and what they can do to fix it themselves. That is if Ford doesn't FINALLY offer up a TSB on it.
My service manager says that Ford will most likely offer it up as a 'complaint only' repair. So those who don't notice it, all the better for Ford. Those who do, they will have a definate fix for it and perform the repairunder warranty.
Right now it's a waiting game. I'm content to wait until the weather warms up and to see if Ford comes out with the fix by this Spring at the very latest. If they don't then I will find and fix the problem myself.
If you want to take the time to figure it out yourself, I would start by test driving a convertable, then get it up on a lift and see what the difference i.e. additional suspension componentis then perform the appropriate repair. IMO, that will save you money, time and frustration.
Do keep us up to date on your progress. There are thousands of pony owners who want it fixed too ;-).
Wolfey2k
Listen, if you really want to get into it and figure out what's wrong on your own, I wouldn't throw money into hit or miss parts replacement. Wrong way to go.
Many have done this already with no real results.
The couple that got rid of their noise problem had lose sway bar links and got rid of the type of noise they would make if lose.
There are lots of parts that can cause noises if lose as we both know.
The primary suspected parts causing the thunking noise are the upper strut bearing. The stock bearing where it rotates is housed in plastic! Of all things Ford decided to use plastic for, that was a really dumb move on their part. The bearing is also a one use throw away part. I've read the mech's Ford spec's and instructions myself.
That's one weak link. The other and the primary cause of the noise are the through bolt bushings used to connect and hold the front sub frame to the body. They are the rear ones that bolt right up under the driver and passenger side floor boards. This is evidently where all the rattling etc. is coming from.
As it says in the tech update I provided you with, Ford says that convertables have all the same parts and don't rattle or thunk in so many words. I have yet to test drive a convertable to see if this is the case or not. It's winter time and with the constraints on my time I haven't had time to go test drive one myself.
This is something I intend to do but I also want to test drive it at my dealer and after I find out what Ford says is true, then I want to have them put it up on the lift so that my service manager and myself can inspect and see exactly what the difference is. Ford says that there is an addition of a cross member somewhere on the sub frame to body connections. We suspect this is keeping things from going rattle clunk clunk so I hope this is the case and after I see it, I will order that part and install it on my car.
I will of course then tell everybody that it's fixed and what they can do to fix it themselves. That is if Ford doesn't FINALLY offer up a TSB on it.
My service manager says that Ford will most likely offer it up as a 'complaint only' repair. So those who don't notice it, all the better for Ford. Those who do, they will have a definate fix for it and perform the repairunder warranty.
Right now it's a waiting game. I'm content to wait until the weather warms up and to see if Ford comes out with the fix by this Spring at the very latest. If they don't then I will find and fix the problem myself.
If you want to take the time to figure it out yourself, I would start by test driving a convertable, then get it up on a lift and see what the difference i.e. additional suspension componentis then perform the appropriate repair. IMO, that will save you money, time and frustration.
Do keep us up to date on your progress. There are thousands of pony owners who want it fixed too ;-).
Wolfey2k
02-18-2007, 02:14 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 886
RE: Front End Noise
Hi Again, Thanks for the additional info. I have heard about the conv/coupe issue. I've concidered the subframe connector that's on the aftermarket. But as you said you have to see exactly what's the difference. I spoke to Tasca Ford (big on mod mustangs) and one person there told me it was bad struts but at the time I didn't think to ask if he replaced with stock or aftermaket/HD struts. Anyway he said to bring it over to have service check it out. Unfortunately I live a long way from there. And after that conversation I started to read this forum and found people have done the strut swap with stock struts and didn't help. I think were on the same page when thinking about how Ford will handle it. (if at all) We know if it was a recall and was a $500 dollar fix times X amount sold they'd be looking at millions. Maybe hundreds of millions. So your right assuming it would be a complaint only fix. And even then it would cost a small fortune. But what scares me is that Ford new about this problem now for 3 years. I think they would have offered the fix already if it was simple. Anyway if I figure it out I'll be sure to but it on the forum. Thanks for your help wolfey2k.
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