I'm glad to say the Steeda parts F1Fan is hocking above aren't overpriced although I think it's funny that it'sbeing spun as a victory.

I think one look at the pics of each will tell most folks something. UMI uses 1.250"x.095" wall tubing onbothmild steel and CM versions (it's a $30 option). One look at the Steeda parts indicates to me they are not nearly that sized, and they sure don't give you any specs. Guess we should just trust everything that Steeda makes to be the best (and some of it is, again I'm a Steeda dealer too).

As for the powdercoating. I didn't think it was a crime to make parts look nice, and coating is more costly than cadmium plating is which is why they cost a little more. You seem to imply that the coating is meant to cover something up... cracks I'd guess. I'm sorry that you feel you have to take pot shots @ the UMI stuff to make the Steeda stuff look better:

Here's the information from Steeda's site regarding the LCA's F1Fan is high on (and that I don't think there is anything wrong with):

"Even though we supply these hardcore parts with aerospace rated rod ends, we make no claim that your Mustang has been cleared for take-off to the moon... although it might appear that way when these fully adjustable lower trailing arms do their thing and help you hook up!"

And here's the UMI information:

"- 1.250” x .095” DOM Steel Tubing
- QA1 ¾” Hard Chrome Plated, Teflon/Kevlar Self Lubricating Rod-Ends
- Complete Arm Features TIG Welded Construction
- CNC Machined 6061 Aluminum Step Bushings with Zinc Plated Steel Sleeves
- On-Car Adjustability Using Right and Left Hand Threads
- Brilliant Durable Powder Coat, Red or Black
- Uses OEM Hardware "

Look.... LCA's aren't freaking rocket science. Most folks can make them at home given the time and inclination. Above are the specs on the UMI double-adjustables and the non-specs on the Steeda's. Now, I'm sure the Steeda's have specs, and I have no reason to doubt their strength. It just bothers me that at the same time no tangible information is being given about those arms, F1Fan is sniping at the UMI arms because for once they aren't actually a lot cheapr than Steeda, and heaven forbid they are powdercoated. What an injustice.

I don't think anyone will be upset with either set (or any number of others for that matter). I use who I believe in and who overall gives me the best quality and service. That's all. If I feel something is better from company X over Y, I'll go that way instead.

What's funny is I have Steeda and UMI/Strano parts on the Shelby. Why? Well I think we built better endlinks, but Steeday had the bar brackets we needed already made and in a form I believe in so it was just silly to try and make our own. In short, the value was there for me on a particular part, so that's the way I went. And that's how I work.

 

Hi sd07gt,

AFAIK none of the Edelbrock UCA's LCA's or Panhard bar for the S197 chassisare using theDelrin version of Currie'sJohnne Joints. All of the Edelbrock parts for S197 chassis use straight 2-piece poly bushings or rod ends. But this is not a big deal as you can replace the poly bushings with Currie forged Johnee Joints pretty cheaply. Many of the usual suspects are using 3/4-16 threads on their LCA and UCA tubes so all you have to do is buy a couple of Currie Johnee Joints and swap them in for the standard shelled 1 or 2-piece poly bushings and have all of the freedom of movement (more actually than even high misalignment rod ends have)of a rod end and the long life and quiet NVH traits of a poly bushing.

HTH!

 

Man, you guys sure take things personal.
Sam, do you have any destructive testing or FEN on the UMI arms? Do you think Steeda or anyone else does? Can you or anyone else here describe exactly what the design loads are on a set of LCA's? If the mild steelparts are overkill (which I'm sure they are at 1.25 x .095), then the only real advantageof going 4130 would be to reduce the tubing size, maintaining comparable strength, and having less weight. 4130 arms the same dimension as the mild steel oneswould bea waste of $ and material. The fact that the Steeda arms are not sized the same as the typical tubular LCA is reasonable being that they're 4130.
FWIW, I have 52K mi on a set of Spohn combo (poly/rod end) LCA's and PH bar, and have my car on jackstands at the moment giving it a once over. After looking at the QA1 rod ends, I honestly wouldn't lose any sleep putting them back in the car (although I'm replacing them) Same with the Bushings. Another FWIW, I use a waterproof marine grease on all my poly bushings, putting to sleep the wivestale about using non-petrolium grease on poly bushings. There is zero effect. I'll use the ones I takefor the front LCA rear bushing I'm designing. You guys may be interested in this when I'm done.
QA1 rod ends aren't unique to anyone's product, and I get a kick of advertizing them as if they're something "special" about a set of arms. They're a good quality rod end that have lasted a lot longer on the street than I would have expected, though. I've beaten up hundreds of rod ends, and these surprised me. The Auroras uset to be the ticket, but my guess is the QA1's will outlast them.

 

Hi steelcomp,

It justirks me that so many people complain about the cost of Steeda's parts (notice that nobody complains about fit, quality or effectiveness, just cost)and then turn right around and complain about how their better because it's cheaper part form China didn't fit or was noisy orhad bad welds or arrived damaged orany one ofa dozen other issues they had with these products that came off the truck from some unknown place. Hey everybody has a different outlook on this stuff and they are welcome to say so just as long as they allow me the same privalleges.

I don't sell parts ortell people to call me so we can talk about how I canprovide them sevices or parts. If someone comes to me via emai, PM or forum postingand asks I'm more than happy to listen and ask questions and make suggestions. I even offer to help them install the stuff if they are SoCal locals and are willing to bring the beer to fill my fridge. Ask anyone who I've helped, I just like to have a good time and help other do the same with their cars.

As you know 4130 tubes as a control arm material trumps 1XXX series DOM mild steel tubesdue to its superior strength to weight ratio. This is a no brainer, stronger materials allow for lighter parts of equal strength, simple. As we all know lighter is better for moving parts so if they cost the same or are reasonably close why buy the part that is not made of better stuff and has also better adjustability?

If the dimensionalinformationis so important to the buyers of these partsthey should call or email Steeda and I'm certaintheywould be more than happy to to give them any of thespecs they are interested in for Steeda products. I've called Steeda many times for info and recently asked about the spring rates for all of the S197 springs they offer. They gave me all of the rates I asked forwhich turned out to be veryaccurateas I later confirmed the numbers onhigh precision spring measurement equpment I have access to. I think that Steeda doesn't put hard specson the websiteto avoid confusing people any more than they have toprefering to ask what they potential buyer wantsto do with the car and make suggestions based on what they say. This is no different than Sam or myself evaluates people's needs AFAIK anyway. Anyway I doubt that Sam routinely spews out the mechanical specs to the folks he is talking to unless they ask and I doubt they ask often for this information. They just trust that Sam or Steedahas spec'd appropriate parts for what they spoke about. There are no secrets being kept from you, all you have to do is ask.

Regarding the use of marine grade grease on poly bushings,a lot ofthe suspension parts makers have an alarming lack of knowledge on this subject. I've been using Mobil 1 marine grade puresynthetic grease forall poly bushings for several years now. Iasked a couple of my freinds who are chemists and they both said that using petroleum based or silicone based lubes are appropriate and that neither will degrade any of the common polyurethanes used in bushings. I've posted this many times years ago and it is good to see someone else independently confirm this.

As to Aurora rod ends I think that their mil. spec rod ends are just as goodor better than QA1 rod ends. Aurora has several different grades of rod ends and you have to go through the spec sheets to figure out which one is suitable for the application.

HTH!

 

You're right about Steeda, F1. I've called them many times regarding parts dimensions and details, even telling them I wanted to make my own parts. I've asked about spring rates, and suspension tuning. In picked who ever I was talking to's brain about their competition UCA and mount. I had already come up with a similar design, using a much longer link, but theirs was close enough to what I wanted that I decided what the heck. I'm still going to build mine, but theirs will be a good enough improvement for now.

 

I do take this personally... because it's how I make my living, and anything less would be a dis-service to my customers. The horror of disagreeing with the Chip, I must be stopped.

As for what I do and don't tell my customers. I think you'd be surprised at the level of detail I do into, very often without being asked. Anyone who hasn't talked to me won't know this, because I don't get into great detail by e-mail. It takes a lot of time, and in the end is still vague. I used to look at wanting to talk to potential customers as customer service.... in that way I could let them know just who they are talking to and they could make their own decision on whether or not I have a clue.

I'm fine with debate, and will happily do so. I'll even start some of it as I'm entitled to my opinion. I won't be derided for having one because somehow owning my business makes me a horrible person. Again, this is how I make my living. The better support and information I can offer, the happier people are. It seems that some believe I'm hear to just nit-pick. I am not.

I realize I'm "new" here. And at the risk of sounding arrogant (but what the hell, I've already been accused of it), this is where I'll point out that can prove how my setups work. I win, I setup cars that win. I datalog, I experiment. I guess that having tangible results is a bad thing? Reputations are hard earned, and I'm not trying to de-throne Steeda. I think it's been continually ignored that I am a Steeda dealer. I'm a Maximum Motorsports dealer, along with the UMI stuff we do. If I think product A is better than B or C, I'll point my customer to A. That's why I carry different brands. If you call Steeda, or MM, I don't think they'll point you to the other guy and tell them what they have is better. I will, because I don't own, or have "stock" any company but my own.

So yeah... it's personal. And it's even more so when I'm called out and assumptions are made about me. Such as I won't give out details or information. That's just flat out not true. As a matter of fact EVERYTHING I do, even in competition is fair game and as a vendor I need to support my customers and my products, not just selling the stuff and telling the guy to have a nice day. I wouldn't expect steelcomp or F1Fan to know that, it's far to easy for them to just judge instead of wondering if I'm for real.

I'm not going away. I like this site, and the tech stuff is generally pretty good. If I have to deal with some preconcieved notions, or the "old guard", I'm ok with that.

As for "testing" the strength of things. Well, I'll just say that certain parts have been torture tested far beyond what you can imagine. Any special rigs? No.... but if we use say rod ends with load strength exceeding 20k pounds, and bigger tubing in our LCA's thanfavorite company number1does, I guess our stuff must be weaker [:@] But hey, you can feel that way, and if you do, I can still sell you the parts of favorite company number 1. I have flexibility in that arena. I'm hear to help folks with decisions, not make them for them. If they're decision is ends up being different than what I'd do or recommend, ok. I can't force them to do anything, whether I feel it's right or wrong.