Depends on which lower control arms you're talking about. I was thinking front, but sounds like you're thinking rear (and you're right). But now that you point it out, I'm not sure which ones the OP was talking about. I made an assumption that's probably incorrect.

So, if I were to mod the Mustang suspension for handeling I would replace shocks/struts with a set of Koni's - I have Koni's on my track car, and I like them. Lower the car 1" front and 1.5" rear. I would install a larger sway bar front and rear; and both would be adjustable. I'm a fan of the stiff spring/medium sway bar method. I would replace front LCA with tubular and use poly bushings.

For the rear, I would install an adjustable panhard bar, with a tie rod end. The trick with the tie rod end is that you have to use the exact correct size pin or bolt. It has to be a pretty tight fit. Sway bar bushings should be all poly.

Initially, I would not change the rear LCA's. Not enough gain there for an experianced amature to use. I would replace the bushings with poly, though; I don't like deflection.

A unibody chassis has a lot of flex in it. Even the new cars that are quite good (compared to a 60's Mustang), can use some help. Definatly install some kind of sub frame connector.

I would do all these changes at once. If you change them one at a time, you have a differant car every week end. It's tough to learn that way.

For the first 1-2 seasons, I would use a good street tire, and not a track tire. A street tire will let you know when it's about to get loose. You'll hear it warn you. A track tire doesn't do that. One second you have traction, the next second you don't. It will be easier to learn the limits and set up of the car on street tires.

And, finally, take a drivers course. It's expensive, but it's the best investment in your car you can make. I took a one day course last year, and immediatly shaved 2 seconds off my lap time. 2 seconds is a lot.

But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

I am glad that you clarified this. My understanding was to change the rear lca, so I am glad I did not buy them yet The main issue that I am having is that the back-end will tend to loose grip when I try and accelerate hard. This happens on both the track and the road. In addition, this become more severe when the road is wet. So coming out of a corner and I accelerate hard, the car just swerving all over the track. This thing also happens on the road. Since we are approaching Minnesota winter here, this will become even worse. Could this be a tire issue? I still have the stock tires on the car and I have 40K miles on it (but the tire are still good). So would changing the bushings on the rear lca help at all? Has anyone else had this issue before?

I have taken one drivers course a few weeks ago and it was a blast. I cannot wait until next year to take a few more. This stuff is addictive (and expensive) but worth it

 

Bob - WTF?

You REALLY need to STOP giving advice about the S197 because you just dont know what the hell you are talking about. As I recall you don't even own one.

First of all - nobody makes a front control arm for the S197 that improves on the factory design for a handling oriented car. Pieces from companies such as BMR are not suited for track use (some have found out the hard way), and are better suited for a dragstrip. Funny that the GAC cars do just fine on the factory pieces.

Second - replace the rubber bushings in the rear lca's? How bout buying a set of factory GT500 pieces for $100? Or any of the 25 different pieces out there that are plenty affordable? - even though there are PLENTY of items to be adressed long before them.

Third - Chassis flex? For god's sake do some research.


Yes - you are mostly WRONG. I hate to be a d*ck about it but seriously - people like you that give BAD information are the biggest problem on the forums. This isn't the first time you have done this. You don't own an S197, probably haven't driven one, and obviously don't know what it takes to make one better than it already is. You are just as bad as the other guy with the SN95 GR-40 car that has yet to have the car on so much as an autocross course but has input for everybody on a COMPLETELY different chassis that he also has no experience in.

You're input on tires and seat time is correct. Everything else is F*d up. It's not fair to give newbs bad info and send them on shopping sprees for sh*t they don't need.

To the OP -

Get a set of Koni's from StranoParts.com Add in a good alignment and some brake upgrades and you will be fine for a while.

 

Will this fix the loosing grip issue on the back-end? I am assuming by Koni, you mean the shocks? Do I need to change both the front and rear ones? Sorry for being to picky but I want to make sure I get the right parts. Thanks for the input!

 

by konis they mean dampers and by dampers they mean the struts and shocks. yes, you'll want to replace front and back and i don't see that helping with your loose rear-end, at least not much. look for some new tires.

the difference between my summer tires and the all-season pirellis is huge. having said that, i think the pirellis are fun, i like breaking the rear wheels loose in the corners but then i'm not on a track worried about lap times/competition.

and rodeoflyer, i was waiting for your response, and i'm surprised you went as easy on .boB as you did!

 

The trade offs to be made when using a car as both a DD and a track car are ones you should consider carefully and the more effort you put into research the better choices you will make.

In my case the car is a DD but only for a short distance, 10 miles each way to work, and so I can live with extra NVH (Noise Vibration and Harshness). I am also going to have summer tires, KDW2s, and winter tires.

Here is a good link on LCAs http://www.cherod.com/mustang/HowTo/LCA%20_adj.htm

My list of mods is below and as you can see they are fairly extensive. Were they all necessary - maybe not but I wanted to do all of the suspension changes at once and not have to worry about it that was the route I went. I also needed a few more goodies because of the SC. First to help get the power to the ground and secondly to stop it as it adds weight and gets you going a lot faster by the next corner.

At the top of this forum is a sticky thread that contains a wealth of information about suspension changes and their affect. Reading all of it takes time but after you are finished you will have a greater understanding of what is involved.

As far as getting the power to the gound in the rain - forget it as the car has way too much torque and not enough weight on the back tires. Trying it on a soaking wet race track is even more fun with 445 HP at the flywheel!

If you decide to go with a UCA the one I have from Steeda (555-4109) is really, really good but an absolute PITA to install as you have to drop the gas tank and bend down the lip on the tank.

Argonaut's suggestions on camber is probably where I'm gonig for next season. This year the -3/4 camber was not enough on some corners and the left front outside shoulder took a beating.

 

1) Tires with 40,000 miles on them are way past the best part of whatever grip they ever had.

2) Nothing in your descriptions tells me that you've learned to match the throttle opening to available grip and how much of that is being used up laterally. You can't do max cornering and max or even much acceleration at the exact same time. This isn't a 90 hp FWD weakling that could have more grip than power and worst-case goes into absolutely numbing understeer.

I just see too much eagerness to let the horses loose and crack the whip. With better tires, the point where the throttle overwhelms rear grip will move up and you'll be going faster, but it will still be there. Keep in mind that the consequences of getting loose at the new higher speed will be more abrupt.

Do a little reading about the "friction circle" (friction ellipse probably describes it better, but anyway). And consider the idea of a see-saw between the steering wheel and the throttle. At anywhere near the limit, more of either one demands that you need to be using less of the other. Gradually increase throttle as you gradually unwind the steering. This is not a video game - you have to feel what's going on.

Sarcasm and bluntness are warranted here. Possible consequences are just a wee bit more serious than embarassment, wounded pride, and a wrinkle or two in a fender.


Norm

 

My advice is to forget about poly bushings in the rear control arms. They can make the problem you're having worse, because the stiffness of poly that's good in some bushing directions for some things (like suppressing wheel hop) works against you by being too stiff in other directions when you're cornering hard. Don't do anything with the LCAs, with the possible exception of GT500 pieces. IMO, you aren't ready yet.

As has been said already, driver, tires/wheels, everything else.


Norm

 

Seriously OP,

Please do not spend any money on parts because your thread is SCREAMING! for some common sense.

It baffles me that you are actually asking why the rear end looses traction when you accelerate hard out of a turn and that it is worse in the rain! A simple lesson in physics focusing on friction would help you out.

I cannot give you advice on how to make your car handle better and have more grip when you haven't grasped the concept of throttle modulation.

Just a tip you don't have to run your stock Pirellis down to the wear bars, just because you see grooves in the tire doesn't mean you should still drive on them.

 

Norm Peterson and UrS4, you guys are absolutely right. I got a little carried away and did not act rationally. Sometimes bluntness is required to get the message across. Lesson learned! This is a new thing for me and I just got over excited. I will stick with changing the tires for now (I need to do that anyway since winter is approaching) and next year, after I learn to control myself, I can do other changes. Now the next task is to figure out which winter tires are good for Minnesota!

I appreciate all the tips from everyone. Thanks guys!!