clintster77

One problem I have ran into on other cars is . The rotors have heat glazed with visible hairline cracks on them. Is this a cooling issue? Not enough ventilation ? Or other ?

clintster77

Thanks for the non calculus answer . The main point in the discussion about the UCA, Lcas ,their angle and length is this . (Brake and wheel hop aside)
Is it possible to compromise on the anti-squats optimal setting in order to achieve more rear load transfer during braking even if wheel and brake hop are not an issue with the setup to start with ?
If it can what would be the best way to go about this ?

I believe it can . If the rear axle can receive more load then more of the braking proportion can be moved to the rear . Load transfer can give a tire more traction . So the statement about your braking only being as good as your tires is true but using all of the front and rear tires is a whole other ball game.

Norm Peterson

The rear axle cannot "receive" more load during braking (unless, I suppose, you're thinking in terms of a "negative load" concept). All you can do is reduce how much load transfers away from it. And when the load transfer away happens.

Load transfer is something that occurs over and varies with time. Very short times, but still finite amounts of time. One engineer at the OE level has mentioned studies involving the first 200 milliseconds or so. The "anti" effects happen very early in the acceleration/braking (and cornering!) event, well before the suspension has had time to reach its final position. Less anti-lift, therefore, means that less load is transferred off the rear axle immediately after you hit the brakes (and the rear brakes grab). Less anti-lift/anti-squat ought to make the rear brakes slightly more resistant to locking up when the braking technique is just "stomp on the brake pedal".

There are perhaps other reasons for desiring less anti-squat. It's apparently the design philosophy of a rather successful A-Modified autocrosser to construct cars with less anti-squat rather than more. Maybe it's to suit that specific environment, those specific cars (with lots of power, little weight, significant aero), and a specific driving technique, but it apparently works.


Norm

Argonaut

Coming into this conversation a little late but I'll add a few things:

- I've used Hawk HT-10 front and back on the street for quite a few miles. I wouldn't recommend it for a DD. It is true they lack cold bite but they heat up quickly and, as long as you are prudent, aren't an issue. However, in a DD scenario you just can not be careful all the time. Plus they are noisy and very dusty.

- On the track they are a fantastic pad. I got 13 track days out of the front (novice and intermediate level) and 8 days out of the rears (they could go a few more).

- In my GT with stock calipers and rotors, brake ducts, ATE super blue, SS lines and the above pads - I have never experienced fade on the track and this is with R-comps on. Track days typically offer 20-30 min sessions. I disagree with any suggestions or notions that you need a BBK on these cars for street use or for HPDEs (at least up to advanced level). If you are racing, advanced or instructor level or have a significantly heavier car (big stereo, super charger, etc) then the advantages of better thermal capacity of 14" rotors would probably be worth it (but note - there is more than few AI competitors on stock brakes).

- I read on corner carvers from time to time. There are competitors and crew members from several race teams that post on there. I remember one discussion about the S197's ABS and brake proportioning system. Apparently it is quite advanced, not only does it change proportioning dynamically from front to back but also from side to side. All your thoughts about using grippier pads on the rear in an effort to increase its effective braking are probably for naught.

clintster77

I have seen big brake kits for the front and one of the advertised statements was that having a larger diameter rotor and a stock caliper relocation bracket allows the caliper to produce more torque than stock because anytime you put leverage farther away from anything it multiples. Take this and apply it to the rear with a rear big brake kit.
I could get a GT takeoff kit for the front and I would have two size rotors for the front .I could use either the v6 or the Gt on the front along with the rear over sized rotors to adjust proportioning and see which gives me better results .

I would not think that the ABS even kicks in unless you are near lock up and even then the ABS pulses would still produce more torque with an over sized rotor ( am I wrong ? )

All this ABS talk Is making me want to look for a V6 without TC and ABS . That way I could just install an adjustable proportioning valve and be done with it.
I'm not a big fan of ABS anyway .(old school)

Argonaut

Reading advertising? Thats as bad as reading this forum - LOL.

Here is an interesting read on braking performance you may find useful. High Performance Brake systems. Edit: this link has changed since I first read it. Now it looks more like excerpts from a book on braking performance. Still some good info though.

clintster77

awesome read .Thanks

I think I understand what the advertising was referring to now that I read the section on rotors on the link you gave .

The effective radius is the lever arm that converts the brake pad friction force into torque. , it’s not the same as the rotor radius, but rather the distance from the center of the rotor to the center of the caliper piston . (Randall Shafer/StopTech)

The effective radius, not the diameter of the rotor is where the extra torque would come from. Since it would be the stock calipers moved away from the center, the radius would increase . So putting stock calipers on a larger diameter rotor would increase the effective radius .

I have a lot more to read !

clintster77

I have come to the conclusion that cross drilled would only be acceptable for the rear brakes because the don't get as much abuse . I was looking at the Baer Rear 14 inch Brake Upgrade Kit . here is the link
rear baer upgrade kit

clintster77

After farther analysis and input from other Mustangforums members there is one thing that I have failed to include in this thread that makes a difference in rear brake bias . Shift lock,trans brake,engine brake whatever you call it it is a useful tool if mastered correctly .

This brings me to move away from the 14 inch rear brake kits as it is probably overkill .

I have not decided on one of 2 routs to go .

Tell me what you think .

Some have said that upgrading the rear brakes a complete waste of money . But I still want to upgrade them as a safety net

#1 / Steeda Rear Brake Upgrade , this kit includes
13 inch slotted rotors,stock caliper relocation brackets,braided stainless steel brake lines .All for $499 13 inch rear brake kit
Upgrade the rear pads to Hawk Performance Ceramic Brake Pads $79.99
Tot $ $579

#2 / Upgrade the rear pads to Hawk Performance Ceramic Brake Pads $79.99,
Add stainless steel brake lines J&M Mustang Stainless Steel Teflon Brake Hoses $103
SPEC Stage 2 Clutch (2005+ V6)clutch upgrade$449
Tot $632

The approach that includes the clutch upgrade is only for a manual tranny .

One reason that I am still leaning for bigger rear rotors is that on occasion I have been known to left foot brake and or tap the E-brake while left foot braking to give the rear more bias . This puts a strain on all the brakes . Not that I go around pulling the E-brake all the time like a beginner drifter .