Lets Talk Brakes
06-19-2010, 11:25 PM
#112
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tri Cities, TN
Posts: 452
First I've heard of the wiggle as a "stick axle" trait...not saying it doesn't have something to do with it, but I do know I can bring my car down as hard as I want, and although I've never tried it, I could probably take my hands off the wheel. OK...LOL...not literally, but you get my point.
I'm running a few mods that aren't so typical, like the front A arm relocate kit, the A arm rear bushing supports (black ones), GT500 front LCA's and 385# springs (or 430's on the track.) The double adjustable Koni's help, too.
I went for a ride in a Cobra (replica) once at Willow (big track). When the guy hit the brakes for turn 1 at the end of the straight, I didn't think he was going to be able to control the car the "wiggle" was so bad. Flat scared the crap out of me as a passenger.
On the Mustang, I wonder if the A arm rear bushing supports might help. Those rear "hydrabushings" are awfully soft. That can't be helping under hard braking, especially wirh R Comps.
I'm running a few mods that aren't so typical, like the front A arm relocate kit, the A arm rear bushing supports (black ones), GT500 front LCA's and 385# springs (or 430's on the track.) The double adjustable Koni's help, too.
I went for a ride in a Cobra (replica) once at Willow (big track). When the guy hit the brakes for turn 1 at the end of the straight, I didn't think he was going to be able to control the car the "wiggle" was so bad. Flat scared the crap out of me as a passenger.
On the Mustang, I wonder if the A arm rear bushing supports might help. Those rear "hydrabushings" are awfully soft. That can't be helping under hard braking, especially wirh R Comps.
06-19-2010, 11:42 PM
#113
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tri Cities, TN
Posts: 452
John - when I was tracking my Stang with stock brakes +standard upgrades, Hawk HT-10 and NT01s I did get some of the 'wiggle' you describe. I remember distinctly the car doing this. In fact, I remember at VIR, heading into Oak Tree, hitting the brakes hard and the wiggle was enough for my instructor to comment on it. It was his opinion that its a common trait of stick axle cars. Another data point - just recently on another forum a guy who traked his stick axle F-body was complaining of the same thing. For me it was never all that bad though so I'm guessing yours is much worse.
Ever hear of Jay Andrews? He is a former NASA Nat Champ in American Iron, drives an older stang or at least he did last time I followed that series). He is also a Hawk dealer and brake expert - he frequently is sought after to give clinics on brake tech. Really nice guy, you may want to call him and discuss it. http://www.andrew-racing.com/
Regarding rear pads - the biggest reason 'common wisdom' says to use less pad in the rear is not due to the agressiveness or friction but rather due to the temperatures. Rear brakes have lower temps and therefore need pads whose sweet spot occurs at a lower temp than the fronts. At least for normal brake systems thats the way it works. For the S197 system....not sure, I've heard so many confusing things about the brakes on this car its hard to tell what true and whats not.
Which StopTechs do you have - ST40? Is it the kit made specifically for the S197 Mustang? I'm sure you know this but for those folks who don't - vendors like ST make the same caliper with different bore sizes for different cars. Its not a one size fits all kind of deal. When swapping fronts from a 2 piston, 13" brake to a 4 or 6 piston, 14" brake and keeping the OEM rears its very important to keep the front and rear brake bias the same or nearly the same. A high quality vendor like StopTech does this by sizing the pistons. So...the ST40 caliper for say a STI will not work properly on a Mustang. Some vendors don't do this and a lot guys don't know this and then they end up wondering why the sexy red BBK they bought on flea bay doesn't stop as well as their old OEM setup.
Ever hear of Jay Andrews? He is a former NASA Nat Champ in American Iron, drives an older stang or at least he did last time I followed that series). He is also a Hawk dealer and brake expert - he frequently is sought after to give clinics on brake tech. Really nice guy, you may want to call him and discuss it. http://www.andrew-racing.com/
Regarding rear pads - the biggest reason 'common wisdom' says to use less pad in the rear is not due to the agressiveness or friction but rather due to the temperatures. Rear brakes have lower temps and therefore need pads whose sweet spot occurs at a lower temp than the fronts. At least for normal brake systems thats the way it works. For the S197 system....not sure, I've heard so many confusing things about the brakes on this car its hard to tell what true and whats not.
Which StopTechs do you have - ST40? Is it the kit made specifically for the S197 Mustang? I'm sure you know this but for those folks who don't - vendors like ST make the same caliper with different bore sizes for different cars. Its not a one size fits all kind of deal. When swapping fronts from a 2 piston, 13" brake to a 4 or 6 piston, 14" brake and keeping the OEM rears its very important to keep the front and rear brake bias the same or nearly the same. A high quality vendor like StopTech does this by sizing the pistons. So...the ST40 caliper for say a STI will not work properly on a Mustang. Some vendors don't do this and a lot guys don't know this and then they end up wondering why the sexy red BBK they bought on flea bay doesn't stop as well as their old OEM setup.
You made my earlier point about the anti lock calibration and changing calipers. ST is the only company I know of that talks about calibrating their calipers to match the anti lock's computations. My 6 piston Wilwoods seem to work very well as I almost never get into the antilocks. I was on an on ramp once, just getting up to speed, probably about 50mph...look in my mirror, look back ahead of me and holy crap! The girl in front of me had slammed on her brakes at that very same instant. All I saw was the back of her car lift about 8" and I thought I was screwed, and prepared for impact. I had less than 20' and all I could do was plant my foot on the brake as hard as I could and I'll be damned if I didn't hit her (came within inches). The anti locks worked absolutely perfectly and modulated about three times just before what would have been certain impact. I've since wanted to do a braking distance test with the car, just never got around to it.
Last edited by steelcomp; 06-19-2010 at 11:45 PM.
06-28-2010, 11:14 PM
#114
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 605
im actually ordering a BBK on my car sometime this week and i am concerned about how the kit will work with ABS and the Front/rear bias. Would you guys rank Baer high on the list of reputable brake companies? i am considering either their Pro Plus kit, or just going with the steeda bbk.
06-29-2010, 08:32 PM
#115
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
My 2 cents:
I dont' know much about Baer because I don't know and haven't even heard of any amateur road racers using them. Not saying they are bad but they certainly aren't popular in my neck of the woods.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the Steeda's look like rebadged StopTech ST40s. If so, they are an excellent choice.
I dont' know much about Baer because I don't know and haven't even heard of any amateur road racers using them. Not saying they are bad but they certainly aren't popular in my neck of the woods.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the Steeda's look like rebadged StopTech ST40s. If so, they are an excellent choice.
07-09-2010, 01:36 PM
#118
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 605
just got my baer pro plus kit in today. im not sure how much the stock parts weigh but the rotors weigh 18 lb each and the calipers (w/ pads) weigh 8 lb each. i should be installing the kit sometime next weekend as im going out of town this weekend. im excited, these things look good.
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