Further to Argonauts comments about tires I run KDWs on the street and for lapping event track days. Last year I ran 6 track days for a total of about 15 track hours and went about 1/2 way through the KDWs. Because I live in Canada and my car is a DD I run snow tires in the winter.

If you go to www.tirerack.com they have lots of into on tires. Here is their link to the Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec tires

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....t+Z1+Star+Spec

Check out the TEST link on this page.

If you are new to the 05+ (S197) the car is significantly better than any previous generation Mustang. The only disadvantage is that it weighs more.

If you get a chance to go to a local Auto-x event or track day with your stock car you will be surprised at how capable it is "out of the box".

 

thanks for everybody's info. yall have already saved me a lot of money and I haven't started to spend any. I used to run falkens on my celica gt that I had back in the import days. I'm no stranger to performance style driving, I just haven't ever looked in to the mech side of it. Thanks again for the advice.....

 

Glad to hear folks are saving money and giving themselves a chance to baseline their cars before spending the money to change parts.

One quick note on that. Some (most/all?) of the pad manufacturers recommend that you not mix pad compounds. I know some folks have gone from their OEM pads to, say Hawk Blue pads, without resurfacing the rotors and just went straight to the bedding process. Personally I don't think this is a good idea. I use Carbotech pads, and they are adamant about not mixing a different manufacturers compound with theirs. If you are contemplating a track-only pad to swap out (as opposed to a high-performance street pad you'll keep in the car after your lapping day), you might want to consider getting a set of OEM take-off rotors to go with them. This makes track prep pretty straightforward, as you bed them once and just swap in and out until they are ready for the heap.

Also, since the plan advocated seems to be mild upgrades at first to see how they suit you, you should also know some basics about diagnosing what suits you. That is, someone might just swap out pads and see how it holds up under their use. That's fine, but you should know what's happening if things do not go to your liking. This is especially true for brake fade and fluid boiling. These will both result in a "not-too-happy now!" response and very poor stopping, but they are different forms of failure that need to be resolved differently.

I'm paraphrasing Smith here, but if you get brake fade you will experience a stiff pedal that just doesn't seem to be stopping the car (or not stopping as well as previously under the same conditions, say the same corner at the same speed). The quick fix, so to speak, is better pads capable of higher heat tolerance (also, take a look at your driving, you may be simply braking too much, etc.). Now if you end up boiling your fluid, the once solid and incompressible fluid that we all love has turned into a very compressible gas. You will experience this as an increase in pedal travel, possibly to the floor, and of course poor stopping (rather than the "firm but I'm not stopping" pedal feel of cooked pads). Here the fix is better brake fluid (also, again and as always "user-error" may be to blame, so look at your maintenance logs to see if you should have bled the old fluid out a long time ago, etc.).

So, the point is that as we mod and test we need some sense of how to read or gauge what is good and bad about the new driving experience. Otherwise, we are likely to continue to throw money at a project merely hoping to make things better.

Best,
-j

 

I agree with with the sleeper, rodeoflyer, and houston said.

I went the basic brake upgrade, ss lines, better pads, and Motul superblue fluid. I would agree that the car may have not stopped in a shorter distance but the brake feel was more linear requiring less pedal pressure for same effect. This was most likely due solely to the pads but having all three was needed on the road course.

However, I would like to discuss how unsprung mass affects braking distance. We all agree that putting 20's on the car lowers whp vs stock 17s. This is an increase in unsprung weight as well as putting more mass farther away from wheel hub. Hence it takes more force (power) to move it. This should work both ways, it will take more force to stop a heavier wheel. Since the maximum braking force is constant this results in longer stopping distance.

We all agree that bigger stickier tires generate more friction and will stop the car in a shorter distance.

But how much is gained by going with a lightweight 17-18 wheel with wider stickier tires, as well as adding lighter rotors?

 

Ok so after spending the last 3 days or so reading all the input from everybody. This is what I'm thinking about doing. I have 18' wheels and G-force tires (it was a package deal I got from a performance shop). I'm thinking about keeping factory calipers but adding a little bit bigger rotor and upgrade the pads to something good. Need to know people's opinions are on which pads to use. I'm not going to be racing my car right now except for the short run on a highway some where. So I'm asking for opinions on my brake upgrade idea. What should I keep? What should I not do? What should I do? Yes I want a better looking caliper so I was thinking about getting some of those bolt on look good kits for calipers.

 

ooooooooo I forgot and sticker tires to shorten my distance. So I guess I don't need bigger calipers huh?

 

I highly doubt you will be able to put a larger pad in the stock caliper. Also using a larger rotor and the stock size pad won't help as with a pad that is not larger there is no increase in frictonal surface for the caliper to clamp onto.

 

AAAAHHHH ok i see.. So can I get better pads in a stock size or will I have to get larger calipers? Or should I just get both bigger calipers and rotors? I feel lost ... 2. Question if I take off my calipers and have them machined at a shop. Is there anything special I need like seals or pins to put the rotors back on?

 

Well I feel lost most of the time...such is the inevitable condition of life when we are growing and expanding our horizons.

First, when folks talk of "a pad upgrade" they mean going to a pad of the same physical dimension as the last pad they used, but using a better compound in the surface that contacts the rotors. So no need for changing the rotor or caliper size.

Second, you would probably be helped greatly by doing a quick search on pad swaps or rotor changes, etc. A good service manual would do wonders for such inquiries. If I understand your question (you meant "take off the calipers and have the rotors machined" not "have the calipers machined" - which you would never do), if you take off your calipers you can just bolt everything back together assuming you don't tear a rubber boot or something. Most folks I've heard advise you use a dab of blue loctite on the bolts just to be safe.

Hope that helps!
Best,
-j

 

Thanks Philostang. Yes I know I would never machine my calipers, nice try. I used to be all in to 4x4 until I moved and I did swap out a rotor or 2. I've looked at my rotors and it doesn't look all that more involved than my old 4x4. I'll still do a search on pads but do you know of any pad that is stock size that is better than stock that I can get? I will most likely have a shop do the whole thing unless it's going to cost me something crazy to have done. If I can save myself some money by doing it myself then that's what I'm going to do. Thanks for your help