Want to try corners
01-20-2010, 09:15 PM
#11
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 100
I would look here under Rocky Mountain Region:
https://www.nasaproracing.com/event
NASA is a great organization for HPDE and beyond.
Also, look here:
http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/
You have one of the best new tracks in the country in your (practically speaking) back yard. Take advantage of it.
I will reiterate the comments made about brake pads and fluid. Get some track-able pads and fluid before you even visit the track for the first time. I use Hawk pads and ATE Super Blue fluid. If you go with Hawk, the HP+ pads are the bare minimum for the track, and if you're even remotely good at this they will overheat quickly. Note that the typical trade off between street pads is that track pads have a high heat tolerance, spew dust and squeal a lot, street pads have a low heat tolerance, are dust free and quiet. Generally speaking, the higher up you go in the track pad stratosphere, the higher the heat tolerance, the more dust the more noise.
Edited to add: Norm is right, autocross is definitely a safer environment to learn car control. That said, NASA won't let you kill yourself on the track. HPDE1 is a very controlled environment and it just might get you hooked on the whole thing.
https://www.nasaproracing.com/event
NASA is a great organization for HPDE and beyond.
Also, look here:
http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/
You have one of the best new tracks in the country in your (practically speaking) back yard. Take advantage of it.
I will reiterate the comments made about brake pads and fluid. Get some track-able pads and fluid before you even visit the track for the first time. I use Hawk pads and ATE Super Blue fluid. If you go with Hawk, the HP+ pads are the bare minimum for the track, and if you're even remotely good at this they will overheat quickly. Note that the typical trade off between street pads is that track pads have a high heat tolerance, spew dust and squeal a lot, street pads have a low heat tolerance, are dust free and quiet. Generally speaking, the higher up you go in the track pad stratosphere, the higher the heat tolerance, the more dust the more noise.
Edited to add: Norm is right, autocross is definitely a safer environment to learn car control. That said, NASA won't let you kill yourself on the track. HPDE1 is a very controlled environment and it just might get you hooked on the whole thing.
Last edited by zero2sixd; 01-20-2010 at 09:18 PM.
01-20-2010, 09:23 PM
#12
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
Depending on how quickly you really start using your brakes the next upgrade is brake cooling ducts per this example from Quantum
http://store.quantummotorsports.com/...ex&cPath=1_2_5
This upgrade may actually save you money because cooling helps the pads and rotors last longer!
http://store.quantummotorsports.com/...ex&cPath=1_2_5
This upgrade may actually save you money because cooling helps the pads and rotors last longer!
01-20-2010, 09:30 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
To help increase your enthusiasm further here is one of my track day videos from last year at Mosport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clgsxpll_zE
and here is one with a data overlay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYgjaztqFdw
By the way, I started this when I was 59 so you are a youngster!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clgsxpll_zE
and here is one with a data overlay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYgjaztqFdw
By the way, I started this when I was 59 so you are a youngster!
01-21-2010, 08:06 AM
#14
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
The Basics of How to Get Your Car on the Track
I put this together a while back for some guys who were interested. Getting started and figuring out where to go can be tough until you meet the folks and learn about the organizations in your area. Hopefully this helps a little:
- Nationwide there are two sanctioning bodies that hold performance driving events: SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) and NASA (National Auto Sport Association). SCCA tends to be more autocross oriented and NASA tends to be more Track oriented.
- In addition to these there are also many private companies that organize events. In the north east for example: TrackDaze.com; trackTime4cars.com; emraracing.com; scda1.com;
- hookedondriving.com is national
- There are lots of organizations in California that do track days
- Also, many car clubs organize track day events: Corvette clubs, BMW clubs, Porsche clubs and Mazda are the main ones. Often time, if they don't fill a particular event, they will open it to other brands.
- And finally, there are a few race tracks that organize their own open track days.
- These events are usually billed as Driving Schools and have specific non-competitive and limited passing rules. This is for liability reasons.
- These events are often referred to as: HPDE (High Performance Driving Event) or PDX (Performance Driving Experience)
- The format is usually 4 sessions per day. Each session anywhere from 20-30 minutes. Two or Three classroom sessions. Each on track session has an instructor in the right seat (depending on your run group)
- Run groups are normally: Novice, Intermediate, Advanced and Instructor. The naming varies widely by the organization putting on the event. Everyone begins in the Novice run group where you will be on the track with other novices. Some folks will be fast, many will be slow
- Safety is strictly enforced: you have a starter who tells you when to go on the track, you have the instructor with you, you have flag men at most corners. Every event has medical personnel also, just in case.
- On the track, you can go as fast as you are comfortable with, the only restrictions being: you can only pass slower cars in designated areas (long straights) and the slower car must put his hand out the window and signal you to pass (called a "point by")
- At a minimum you will need an approved helmet on at all times while on the track. That's really the only non-stock safety device required...although some groups require a fire extinguisher mounted in the car
- The first few times out its pretty white knuckle stuff. You tend to focus so much on the track ahead of you that you ignore everything else (cars behind you, corner workers with flags, etc). This is where the instructor riding shot gun really saves you.
- Once you are up to speed and settled down you begin to become more situational aware of what's happening around you. You begin to brake a little harder and a little later. You learn to hit the apex of the corner and use all the track when powering out of the corner. You get on the gas just a little earlier. You learn how to handle oversteer and understeer situations. This is really the difference between a novice driver and an intermediate.
- If you do well and depending on your instructor, you may get signed off solo for the last run of the day
- Sometimes part of this "school" includes sessions on a skid pad if the track has one. This is really valuable because you quickly learn what understeer is, how to deal with it and how to avoid it (brake earlier). You learn about oversteer, nothing like spinning the car a few times on a skid pad to learn what its like when that rear end comes around.
- How you advance from the novice group to the intermediate group depends on the organizer but generally it will take several track days and good situational awareness. The step up in speed is significant. When I started I worked up to being consistently one of the fastest guys in Novice, then they moved me to Intermediate. Suddenly I was getting passed left and right. Its humbling to get passed by a Miata, LOL.
- I've found that each organization has its own personality, some are very laid back, others are pretty ****. The sanctioning bodies (SCCA and NASA) tend to be more the later.
- The SCCA and NASA events usually combine a Drivers School with Club Races. So, you get to watch a race during one session. Then the next session you are on the track in your run group.
- Both the SCCA and NASA require membership - ~$35/year (although they both have nice magazines with that). Some of the private companies require membership, or give you a discount for being a member
- You will not be able to take any Passengers, the only person allowed in the car while you are driving is an instructor.
- If you have a friend who wants a ride however, he/she can usually get a ride with an instructor
- You also will be able to hop in the car with any instructor, its a great way to learn and get the **** scared out of you!
- some NASA events have what is called a "Hyperdrive". Its an introduction - one on track session with and instructor for $50. Very few cars on the track with you. For folks who are short of funds or really tentative about it, its a good option.
The car:
- The Mustang works really well, it has a stiff chassis, reasonably good handling, tends to understeer (good for novice - intermediate drivers) and its very predictable
- There are certainly folks who go on the track with stock brakes, however, IMO a brake upgrade is a good option: high performance brake pads and hi temp fluid. The car weighs > 3600 pounds when gassed up, that's a lot of weight to stop. If you push the stock brakes hard you will fade them (boil the fluid) and literally melt the stock pads. The stickier tire you have and the more aggressive you drive, the worse this problem will be, that's why brakes were my first upgrade before hitting the track.
- The stock cooling system and oiling system seem to work fine, I've had no issues, even in 90+ degrees
- The seats stink, you slide all over the place. Short of switching seats you have two options: purchase a CGLock (Google it) that locks the lap belt or do the old trick where you extend the seat belt all the way and then slowly let it retract while moving your seat forward to lock it at the shoulder.
- The stock tires (not sure what you have) are ok, they squeal a lot and don't have all that much grip but they are certainly fine for the first few times on the track
- Tire pressure depends on what tire you have but the usual advice is to run it a little high (at least for street tires) so that you don't roll over onto the sidewall
- Insurance: some insurance companies will cover you if you happen to damage the car as long as its a Drivers School (not a competition. Thus the reason they bill it as a "school"). Other insurance companies won't.
- In novice run group there are really very few mishaps. In 30+ track days I've mostly seen accidents in the higher run groups (they go a lot faster and take more chances)
- If this is a concern, check with your insurance company (I'd do it anonymously). You can purchase one day "track insurance" from some companies who cater to this market, I think its on the order of $50/day
- Lots of folks tape over their license plate numbers - I never have. The feeling is that - all these events have people with video and lots of those videos end up on YouTube and you don't want your insurance company or your Ford Dealer getting a hold of it and denying claims.
- Cost: its not cheap. You have the trip costs: lodging, gas, food. The consumables: brake pads, rotors, tires, fuel on track (how does 8MPG grab ya) and the event costs: varies widely by region and track but in the NE we see a low of 150/day to a high of over 400/day - yikes!
Cheers, Brad
- Nationwide there are two sanctioning bodies that hold performance driving events: SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) and NASA (National Auto Sport Association). SCCA tends to be more autocross oriented and NASA tends to be more Track oriented.
- In addition to these there are also many private companies that organize events. In the north east for example: TrackDaze.com; trackTime4cars.com; emraracing.com; scda1.com;
- hookedondriving.com is national
- There are lots of organizations in California that do track days
- Also, many car clubs organize track day events: Corvette clubs, BMW clubs, Porsche clubs and Mazda are the main ones. Often time, if they don't fill a particular event, they will open it to other brands.
- And finally, there are a few race tracks that organize their own open track days.
- These events are usually billed as Driving Schools and have specific non-competitive and limited passing rules. This is for liability reasons.
- These events are often referred to as: HPDE (High Performance Driving Event) or PDX (Performance Driving Experience)
- The format is usually 4 sessions per day. Each session anywhere from 20-30 minutes. Two or Three classroom sessions. Each on track session has an instructor in the right seat (depending on your run group)
- Run groups are normally: Novice, Intermediate, Advanced and Instructor. The naming varies widely by the organization putting on the event. Everyone begins in the Novice run group where you will be on the track with other novices. Some folks will be fast, many will be slow
- Safety is strictly enforced: you have a starter who tells you when to go on the track, you have the instructor with you, you have flag men at most corners. Every event has medical personnel also, just in case.
- On the track, you can go as fast as you are comfortable with, the only restrictions being: you can only pass slower cars in designated areas (long straights) and the slower car must put his hand out the window and signal you to pass (called a "point by")
- At a minimum you will need an approved helmet on at all times while on the track. That's really the only non-stock safety device required...although some groups require a fire extinguisher mounted in the car
- The first few times out its pretty white knuckle stuff. You tend to focus so much on the track ahead of you that you ignore everything else (cars behind you, corner workers with flags, etc). This is where the instructor riding shot gun really saves you.
- Once you are up to speed and settled down you begin to become more situational aware of what's happening around you. You begin to brake a little harder and a little later. You learn to hit the apex of the corner and use all the track when powering out of the corner. You get on the gas just a little earlier. You learn how to handle oversteer and understeer situations. This is really the difference between a novice driver and an intermediate.
- If you do well and depending on your instructor, you may get signed off solo for the last run of the day
- Sometimes part of this "school" includes sessions on a skid pad if the track has one. This is really valuable because you quickly learn what understeer is, how to deal with it and how to avoid it (brake earlier). You learn about oversteer, nothing like spinning the car a few times on a skid pad to learn what its like when that rear end comes around.
- How you advance from the novice group to the intermediate group depends on the organizer but generally it will take several track days and good situational awareness. The step up in speed is significant. When I started I worked up to being consistently one of the fastest guys in Novice, then they moved me to Intermediate. Suddenly I was getting passed left and right. Its humbling to get passed by a Miata, LOL.
- I've found that each organization has its own personality, some are very laid back, others are pretty ****. The sanctioning bodies (SCCA and NASA) tend to be more the later.
- The SCCA and NASA events usually combine a Drivers School with Club Races. So, you get to watch a race during one session. Then the next session you are on the track in your run group.
- Both the SCCA and NASA require membership - ~$35/year (although they both have nice magazines with that). Some of the private companies require membership, or give you a discount for being a member
- You will not be able to take any Passengers, the only person allowed in the car while you are driving is an instructor.
- If you have a friend who wants a ride however, he/she can usually get a ride with an instructor
- You also will be able to hop in the car with any instructor, its a great way to learn and get the **** scared out of you!
- some NASA events have what is called a "Hyperdrive". Its an introduction - one on track session with and instructor for $50. Very few cars on the track with you. For folks who are short of funds or really tentative about it, its a good option.
The car:
- The Mustang works really well, it has a stiff chassis, reasonably good handling, tends to understeer (good for novice - intermediate drivers) and its very predictable
- There are certainly folks who go on the track with stock brakes, however, IMO a brake upgrade is a good option: high performance brake pads and hi temp fluid. The car weighs > 3600 pounds when gassed up, that's a lot of weight to stop. If you push the stock brakes hard you will fade them (boil the fluid) and literally melt the stock pads. The stickier tire you have and the more aggressive you drive, the worse this problem will be, that's why brakes were my first upgrade before hitting the track.
- The stock cooling system and oiling system seem to work fine, I've had no issues, even in 90+ degrees
- The seats stink, you slide all over the place. Short of switching seats you have two options: purchase a CGLock (Google it) that locks the lap belt or do the old trick where you extend the seat belt all the way and then slowly let it retract while moving your seat forward to lock it at the shoulder.
- The stock tires (not sure what you have) are ok, they squeal a lot and don't have all that much grip but they are certainly fine for the first few times on the track
- Tire pressure depends on what tire you have but the usual advice is to run it a little high (at least for street tires) so that you don't roll over onto the sidewall
- Insurance: some insurance companies will cover you if you happen to damage the car as long as its a Drivers School (not a competition. Thus the reason they bill it as a "school"). Other insurance companies won't.
- In novice run group there are really very few mishaps. In 30+ track days I've mostly seen accidents in the higher run groups (they go a lot faster and take more chances)
- If this is a concern, check with your insurance company (I'd do it anonymously). You can purchase one day "track insurance" from some companies who cater to this market, I think its on the order of $50/day
- Lots of folks tape over their license plate numbers - I never have. The feeling is that - all these events have people with video and lots of those videos end up on YouTube and you don't want your insurance company or your Ford Dealer getting a hold of it and denying claims.
- Cost: its not cheap. You have the trip costs: lodging, gas, food. The consumables: brake pads, rotors, tires, fuel on track (how does 8MPG grab ya) and the event costs: varies widely by region and track but in the NE we see a low of 150/day to a high of over 400/day - yikes!
Cheers, Brad
01-21-2010, 11:30 PM
#17
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 187
Another vote for NASA. They really take the time to ease you through the system properly. Not sure how far you are from So.Cal., but SpeedVentures is another good group once you get a few NASA events under your belt.
01-24-2010, 10:03 PM
#19
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mid MI
Posts: 205
01-27-2010, 09:26 AM
#20
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 84
I'll do that, I'm going on May 17th for a full day, I found out I know "a friend of a freind" and I can get instructions all day if I want! that's perfect for me,