If stock GT equals M3, what would Boss, etc. do?
10-01-2010, 09:35 AM
#11
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: IN
Posts: 483
Have you driven the 5.0 with Brembos etc...?
If not, you can't tell for sure.
In any rate, the M3 isn't worth $60K.
Also German quality isn't what it once was, sorry.
But their prices remain the same I see, which makes them over rated cars.
It goes the same with their motorcycles...
If not, you can't tell for sure.
In any rate, the M3 isn't worth $60K.
Also German quality isn't what it once was, sorry.
But their prices remain the same I see, which makes them over rated cars.
It goes the same with their motorcycles...
10-01-2010, 09:53 AM
#12
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,401
I always cringe when I see the M3 being compared with the Mustang, and see the so called unbiased conclusions/results afterward.
A True comparison isn't just about hard numbers. Now, I don't know if US BMW's are built in Germany, or perhaps Mexico or wherever, but when I lived in Germany I drove and owned a few and I got to say that the Mustang is a very poor car in comparison - qualitywise and engineeringwise. There is a very real and tangible reason that Mustangs do not sell in Europe and why it's economical for BMW to set up shop and sell in the States.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Mustang, but it ain't no Bimmer. And when they click round to 6 years old and beyond? Forget it.........
Now yes, you're always going to get biased comments from guys who had a Bimmer which was nothing but trouble and who will paint every BMW with the same brush, but really it's a point of fact that the BMW is a Higher Dollar product, it's indisputable.
The truth is, cars like the M3/5/6 are just not cars for the US market. Who in the States is remotely interested in how well they take alpine roads? Did you all see the "Battle of the supercars" with the M3 against the Lexus thingy? What a waste of time and,. I hate to say it, what an Americanised test. Take two cars chiseled and honed to run round corners and you know of the four tests they gave them, three were 0-100-0, 60-100, and sprint to the flag. Even the one lap road course shootout they gave them was clearly contrived..... I mean, come on !!
Would I pay the money for a new M3? hmmm, it's a lot of cash for a lot of car, I just don't think I can personally justify it. Would I buy a 2 yr old M3 over a Brand New Mustang GT at the same money? YES......
A True comparison isn't just about hard numbers. Now, I don't know if US BMW's are built in Germany, or perhaps Mexico or wherever, but when I lived in Germany I drove and owned a few and I got to say that the Mustang is a very poor car in comparison - qualitywise and engineeringwise. There is a very real and tangible reason that Mustangs do not sell in Europe and why it's economical for BMW to set up shop and sell in the States.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Mustang, but it ain't no Bimmer. And when they click round to 6 years old and beyond? Forget it.........
Now yes, you're always going to get biased comments from guys who had a Bimmer which was nothing but trouble and who will paint every BMW with the same brush, but really it's a point of fact that the BMW is a Higher Dollar product, it's indisputable.
The truth is, cars like the M3/5/6 are just not cars for the US market. Who in the States is remotely interested in how well they take alpine roads? Did you all see the "Battle of the supercars" with the M3 against the Lexus thingy? What a waste of time and,. I hate to say it, what an Americanised test. Take two cars chiseled and honed to run round corners and you know of the four tests they gave them, three were 0-100-0, 60-100, and sprint to the flag. Even the one lap road course shootout they gave them was clearly contrived..... I mean, come on !!
Would I pay the money for a new M3? hmmm, it's a lot of cash for a lot of car, I just don't think I can personally justify it. Would I buy a 2 yr old M3 over a Brand New Mustang GT at the same money? YES......
Last edited by marcuskeeler; 10-01-2010 at 09:57 AM.
10-01-2010, 12:39 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,747
The last time I was in Germany I bought a beater 86 325 5 spd with 140.000 k's on it. That was one of my favorite cars I ever owned. I am going back to Germany again in a few months and I will buy another one as soon as I get off the plane. Hard to beat the e30's IMHO.
10-01-2010, 01:57 PM
#15
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: MI
Posts: 1,292
I always cringe when I see the M3 being compared with the Mustang, and see the so called unbiased conclusions/results afterward.
A True comparison isn't just about hard numbers. Now, I don't know if US BMW's are built in Germany, or perhaps Mexico or wherever, but when I lived in Germany I drove and owned a few and I got to say that the Mustang is a very poor car in comparison - qualitywise and engineeringwise. There is a very real and tangible reason that Mustangs do not sell in Europe and why it's economical for BMW to set up shop and sell in the States.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Mustang, but it ain't no Bimmer. And when they click round to 6 years old and beyond? Forget it.........
Now yes, you're always going to get biased comments from guys who had a Bimmer which was nothing but trouble and who will paint every BMW with the same brush, but really it's a point of fact that the BMW is a Higher Dollar product, it's indisputable.
The truth is, cars like the M3/5/6 are just not cars for the US market. Who in the States is remotely interested in how well they take alpine roads? Did you all see the "Battle of the supercars" with the M3 against the Lexus thingy? What a waste of time and,. I hate to say it, what an Americanised test. Take two cars chiseled and honed to run round corners and you know of the four tests they gave them, three were 0-100-0, 60-100, and sprint to the flag. Even the one lap road course shootout they gave them was clearly contrived..... I mean, come on !!
Would I pay the money for a new M3? hmmm, it's a lot of cash for a lot of car, I just don't think I can personally justify it. Would I buy a 2 yr old M3 over a Brand New Mustang GT at the same money? YES......
A True comparison isn't just about hard numbers. Now, I don't know if US BMW's are built in Germany, or perhaps Mexico or wherever, but when I lived in Germany I drove and owned a few and I got to say that the Mustang is a very poor car in comparison - qualitywise and engineeringwise. There is a very real and tangible reason that Mustangs do not sell in Europe and why it's economical for BMW to set up shop and sell in the States.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Mustang, but it ain't no Bimmer. And when they click round to 6 years old and beyond? Forget it.........
Now yes, you're always going to get biased comments from guys who had a Bimmer which was nothing but trouble and who will paint every BMW with the same brush, but really it's a point of fact that the BMW is a Higher Dollar product, it's indisputable.
The truth is, cars like the M3/5/6 are just not cars for the US market. Who in the States is remotely interested in how well they take alpine roads? Did you all see the "Battle of the supercars" with the M3 against the Lexus thingy? What a waste of time and,. I hate to say it, what an Americanised test. Take two cars chiseled and honed to run round corners and you know of the four tests they gave them, three were 0-100-0, 60-100, and sprint to the flag. Even the one lap road course shootout they gave them was clearly contrived..... I mean, come on !!
Would I pay the money for a new M3? hmmm, it's a lot of cash for a lot of car, I just don't think I can personally justify it. Would I buy a 2 yr old M3 over a Brand New Mustang GT at the same money? YES......
The 11 v8 both in build quality and performance is comparable to the m3, the m3 is nearly twice the cost. The GT350 gets even better numbers both in power and handling than the regular GT, so for the same price (~$60k) I doubt the M3 would stand a chance on the drag strip or any road course.
Is the general public going to cross shop these cars? No
By the numbers are they directly comparable? Absolutely
10-01-2010, 03:10 PM
#16
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 738
What most people are missing is that you aren't paying so much for the performance of the M3 but rather the performance combined with the luxury of an M3. The inside of an M3 is easily 1000x nicer than the inside of the most decked out mustang you can find (unless said mustang goes crazy aftermarket on the interior).
I was just sitting inside a brand spankin new from the factory out in Germany 2011 M3 and it puts my 2-tone leather seats and whatnot interior on the GT/CS to shame.
I was just sitting inside a brand spankin new from the factory out in Germany 2011 M3 and it puts my 2-tone leather seats and whatnot interior on the GT/CS to shame.
10-01-2010, 06:48 PM
#17
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 23
I own an 08' M3. I have 29k miles on it now. It's suspension is good at absorbing bumps/dips, but lacks some in body control when pushed hard and loaded up. My 335i with KWV2's owns it in that respect.
I hate driving it in day to day traffic, no low-end TQ. For it to behave as a performance car, you need to live at 6k RPM and above, otherwise you might as well be driving a 328i
Mine is the 6 Speed and there is an issue when shifting at recline, it grinds 2nd and won't engage until the RPMs fall down. You can't even force it in.
It is more sorted out in stock form then the 11' GT, but that is to be expected, as we all know M3 dampners are better then the Mustangs. That is an easy and cheap fix though.
Interior wise, I would say it is about 10 to 20% better then the mustangs, not a huge difference like some think ( assuming the premium option on the stang)
As far as German quality, don't get me started. Both my 335i, and M3 have seen the indoor bays of my local dealer shop more then any modern, new car should.
My first 5k miles impression of my first and only M3, were.... I don't understand where the M3 gets it's high praise from. It really wasn't that impressive to me. Oh I average 13 to 15 MPG as well. Maybe I got spoiled from my C5 Z06, IMO, the M3 isn't all that, as it is made out to be (mostly by those who have never owned one)
I hate driving it in day to day traffic, no low-end TQ. For it to behave as a performance car, you need to live at 6k RPM and above, otherwise you might as well be driving a 328i
Mine is the 6 Speed and there is an issue when shifting at recline, it grinds 2nd and won't engage until the RPMs fall down. You can't even force it in.
It is more sorted out in stock form then the 11' GT, but that is to be expected, as we all know M3 dampners are better then the Mustangs. That is an easy and cheap fix though.
Interior wise, I would say it is about 10 to 20% better then the mustangs, not a huge difference like some think ( assuming the premium option on the stang)
As far as German quality, don't get me started. Both my 335i, and M3 have seen the indoor bays of my local dealer shop more then any modern, new car should.
My first 5k miles impression of my first and only M3, were.... I don't understand where the M3 gets it's high praise from. It really wasn't that impressive to me. Oh I average 13 to 15 MPG as well. Maybe I got spoiled from my C5 Z06, IMO, the M3 isn't all that, as it is made out to be (mostly by those who have never owned one)
10-01-2010, 11:55 PM
#18
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 164
My 335i rocked and with the Vishu chip was FAST! In some ways I miss it. What do I miss most, the brakes closely followed by the handling characteristics. What do I love about the GT, the sound, and the raw feeling of power. I played sports for many years and the Mustang gives you the feeling you are home team and you just scored and won. The BMW makes me feel like I won an away game? Not sure if that makes any sense?
10-04-2010, 05:01 PM
#19
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: MI
Posts: 59
After Motor Trend's test of a BMW M3 and Mustang GT came up a dead heat, what the heck would a Boss 302, Boss Laguna Seca, Shelby GT350, or GT500 do to the poor beamer? I would love to see some lap times at the same track to compare these new Ford offerings to the competition. My guess is that the 'Vette would be in their sights and thew M3 in the rear view mirror.
The cars are not the limiting factor, the idiot behind the wheel is.
10-04-2010, 09:37 PM
#20
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
I own an 08' M3. I have 29k miles on it now. It's suspension is good at absorbing bumps/dips, but lacks some in body control when pushed hard and loaded up. My 335i with KWV2's owns it in that respect.
I hate driving it in day to day traffic, no low-end TQ. For it to behave as a performance car, you need to live at 6k RPM and above, otherwise you might as well be driving a 328i
Mine is the 6 Speed and there is an issue when shifting at recline, it grinds 2nd and won't engage until the RPMs fall down. You can't even force it in.
It is more sorted out in stock form then the 11' GT, but that is to be expected, as we all know M3 dampners are better then the Mustangs. That is an easy and cheap fix though.
Interior wise, I would say it is about 10 to 20% better then the mustangs, not a huge difference like some think ( assuming the premium option on the stang)
As far as German quality, don't get me started. Both my 335i, and M3 have seen the indoor bays of my local dealer shop more then any modern, new car should.
My first 5k miles impression of my first and only M3, were.... I don't understand where the M3 gets it's high praise from. It really wasn't that impressive to me. Oh I average 13 to 15 MPG as well. Maybe I got spoiled from my C5 Z06, IMO, the M3 isn't all that, as it is made out to be (mostly by those who have never owned one)
I hate driving it in day to day traffic, no low-end TQ. For it to behave as a performance car, you need to live at 6k RPM and above, otherwise you might as well be driving a 328i
Mine is the 6 Speed and there is an issue when shifting at recline, it grinds 2nd and won't engage until the RPMs fall down. You can't even force it in.
It is more sorted out in stock form then the 11' GT, but that is to be expected, as we all know M3 dampners are better then the Mustangs. That is an easy and cheap fix though.
Interior wise, I would say it is about 10 to 20% better then the mustangs, not a huge difference like some think ( assuming the premium option on the stang)
As far as German quality, don't get me started. Both my 335i, and M3 have seen the indoor bays of my local dealer shop more then any modern, new car should.
My first 5k miles impression of my first and only M3, were.... I don't understand where the M3 gets it's high praise from. It really wasn't that impressive to me. Oh I average 13 to 15 MPG as well. Maybe I got spoiled from my C5 Z06, IMO, the M3 isn't all that, as it is made out to be (mostly by those who have never owned one)
I will say that most people in the US than own these cars go more for the prestige of it than anything else.
I can go faster in the turns with a station wagon and it's not the M3's fault, lol.
On the other end, lots of folks have not yet realized that the Mustang is now a serious contender in cornering and is getting more refined with each new model.
The 2011 GT is a lot of car for the money while the M3 is a rape, simple as that.
The Bimer should be priced at $40K, 45 max...