Does the S197 have any major vices on the road course?
02-11-2011, 08:01 AM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
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Toe (in or out) is a preference thing. Zero toe is a pretty good compromise for street and track. 1/16" toe out is nice on the track - the car will feel like it responds to turning inputs quicker, but it will feel a bit "darty" for DD use. Colin - have you tried zero toe? I'm surprised you have it set to be toe'd in. I know you don't like trammling but if you haven't tried it you might want to give it a go and see if you can live with it.
2-2.5 degrees of camber would be a lot for a street car and I think there are only one or two high dollar plates that can move that far. Somewhere in the 1.75 range should work well.
2-2.5 degrees of camber would be a lot for a street car and I think there are only one or two high dollar plates that can move that far. Somewhere in the 1.75 range should work well.
02-11-2011, 08:31 AM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 178
Norm, I'm not serious enough 
. Just going under the assumption that for us track-day non-competitive folks, there's nothing to do with alignment on the rear axle. Sounds like a Watts link is a nice addition to keep it in check laterally though; definitely on the list.
I'm used to FWD and AWD cars personally (other than the RX-8) which tend to need a ton of negative camber up front to not cord the outer shoulders of the front tires. Nice to hear the Mustang can work with -1.5 to -2.0 (like an RX-8, actually) and that also makes for a good 'compromise' setting for street use. I'll probably just start with zero toe up front to begin with and whatever the Steeda mounts will give me as far as negative camber and work from there. I've tried notable toe-out on other cars and while it gives you a bit better turn-in it seemed like steady-state front-end grip was no better and perhaps even a bit worse. That was on a WRX though; obviously a totally different platform. Regardless, now I have some ideas where to start. Now all I need is a car....
Phil
. Just going under the assumption that for us track-day non-competitive folks, there's nothing to do with alignment on the rear axle. Sounds like a Watts link is a nice addition to keep it in check laterally though; definitely on the list. I'm used to FWD and AWD cars personally (other than the RX-8) which tend to need a ton of negative camber up front to not cord the outer shoulders of the front tires. Nice to hear the Mustang can work with -1.5 to -2.0 (like an RX-8, actually) and that also makes for a good 'compromise' setting for street use. I'll probably just start with zero toe up front to begin with and whatever the Steeda mounts will give me as far as negative camber and work from there. I've tried notable toe-out on other cars and while it gives you a bit better turn-in it seemed like steady-state front-end grip was no better and perhaps even a bit worse. That was on a WRX though; obviously a totally different platform. Regardless, now I have some ideas where to start. Now all I need is a car....
Phil
02-11-2011, 10:55 AM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
I've tried notable toe-out on other cars and while it gives you a bit better turn-in it seemed like steady-state front-end grip was no better and perhaps even a bit worse. That was on a WRX though; obviously a totally different platform. Regardless, now I have some ideas where to start. Now all I need is a car....
Phil
Phil
02-11-2011, 02:02 PM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,201
Live axle, stock springs and shocks are very soft...ummm...thats the big ones
If your going on a road course you might consider changing up your brake pads and getting difference shocks and struts as a start
If your going on a road course you might consider changing up your brake pads and getting difference shocks and struts as a start
02-11-2011, 11:15 PM
#16
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 187
I had a chance to "redo" my decision after I nuked my first '06 GT on the track. I test drove a lot of different cars, since I'd had my first '06 for almost 5 years and was thinking I might want a change. I already had a WRX, so I knew I didn't want one of those again. I tried E36 and E46 M3's, 996 911's, 350Z's, and...a few Miatas (way fun, but way too little top end).
At the end of the day, I came back to another '06 GT. I knew the car, I liked the car, it is dead nuts reliable on the track, and if parts do break, they are cheap and easy to replace.
Way too many horror stories from the M3 and 911 owners--those cars just don't take the abuse and the weak link is THE FRIGGIN' ENGINE! A track buddy of mine just dropped close to $15k for a new engine on his 996 that has been babied. Thanks, but no thanks.
The negatives of the S197 mustang on the track? Just the usual that have been mentioned--make sure the brakes get some cooling ducts, track pads and fluid (which every car out there needs). And you really should put in aftermarket dampers. And while you are there, might as well do the springs and sways, and camber plates. Not too much money to completely transform the car on the road and track.
At the end of the day, I came back to another '06 GT. I knew the car, I liked the car, it is dead nuts reliable on the track, and if parts do break, they are cheap and easy to replace.
Way too many horror stories from the M3 and 911 owners--those cars just don't take the abuse and the weak link is THE FRIGGIN' ENGINE! A track buddy of mine just dropped close to $15k for a new engine on his 996 that has been babied. Thanks, but no thanks.
The negatives of the S197 mustang on the track? Just the usual that have been mentioned--make sure the brakes get some cooling ducts, track pads and fluid (which every car out there needs). And you really should put in aftermarket dampers. And while you are there, might as well do the springs and sways, and camber plates. Not too much money to completely transform the car on the road and track.
02-12-2011, 09:38 AM
#17
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 178
Ha, funny you mention the 996. It was high on my list for awhile, right until I learned about their little weak link being the motor. On a German car. Scary expensive to fix that. And scary expensive to fix anything. The funny thing on that was some said if you baby it, you'll blow your motor. Gotta drive it hard. Followed by folks chiming in that hey, I drove mine hard and I blew my motor! Indeed, no thanks. How did you kill your first '06 GT on track?
Argonaut, interesting article. I'm thinking perhaps I went too far toe out when I was experimenting and overshot the 'helpful' angle so I was just scrubbing perhaps? Hard to say. The article does make sense though. Gives me something to play around with anyway.
I'll very likely buy the car and almost immediately install Konis (if they every get them off backorder), Steeda springs and Steeda upper mounts, along with Carbotech XP10s all around and good fluid and some kind of brake ducts. I'll also need track tires before the season gets going in April unless I find a Track Pack car that has trackable summer rubber on it already. Given all that, I'm pretty sure my money tree will be looking pretty picked over so I'll have to take a breather. Might try and sneak in some sways and a Watts link later in the season, but if not I'm sure I could enjoy the car as-is for several track days and a couple runs in the twisties (we go to Colorado and Arkansas; there are no twisties in KS to speak of though at least they are putting in an inordinate number of roundabouts in my area).
Thanks again for the input. I will likely post a few new threads to address other specific things in the near future, as not to bury good information in here.
Argonaut, interesting article. I'm thinking perhaps I went too far toe out when I was experimenting and overshot the 'helpful' angle so I was just scrubbing perhaps? Hard to say. The article does make sense though. Gives me something to play around with anyway.
I'll very likely buy the car and almost immediately install Konis (if they every get them off backorder), Steeda springs and Steeda upper mounts, along with Carbotech XP10s all around and good fluid and some kind of brake ducts. I'll also need track tires before the season gets going in April unless I find a Track Pack car that has trackable summer rubber on it already. Given all that, I'm pretty sure my money tree will be looking pretty picked over so I'll have to take a breather. Might try and sneak in some sways and a Watts link later in the season, but if not I'm sure I could enjoy the car as-is for several track days and a couple runs in the twisties (we go to Colorado and Arkansas; there are no twisties in KS to speak of though at least they are putting in an inordinate number of roundabouts in my area
).Thanks again for the input. I will likely post a few new threads to address other specific things in the near future, as not to bury good information in here.
02-12-2011, 10:28 AM
#18
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
Toe (in or out) is a preference thing. Zero toe is a pretty good compromise for street and track. 1/16" toe out is nice on the track - the car will feel like it responds to turning inputs quicker, but it will feel a bit "darty" for DD use. Colin - have you tried zero toe? I'm surprised you have it set to be toe'd in. I know you don't like trammling but if you haven't tried it you might want to give it a go and see if you can live with it.
2-2.5 degrees of camber would be a lot for a street car and I think there are only one or two high dollar plates that can move that far. Somewhere in the 1.75 range should work well.
2-2.5 degrees of camber would be a lot for a street car and I think there are only one or two high dollar plates that can move that far. Somewhere in the 1.75 range should work well.
02-12-2011, 07:44 PM
#19
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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