Horsepower handout...
5th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,250
From: NoDak
RE: Horsepower handout...
ORIGINAL: MrRogers
There is no benefit by making more power per liter.
A F1 engine compared to a another larger displacement engine that has better reliability MUCH less cost?
Efficiency = Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time, effort and cost; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable.
Do you think F1 engines are efficient? If so how?
ORIGINAL: scg87
OMG. You're still not getting it. My point was that according to your logic it's not efficient. Is it, or is it not???
ORIGINAL: MrRogers
[sm=icon_rofl.gif]
We are comparing production engines, and you jump to F1?
Come now.
A F1 engine consists of close to 5000 parts of which around 1500 of those parts move.
Makes it's power around 20,000 rpms.
How much does it cost to keep one of those engines in good repair?
How much does it cost to buy a F1 engine?
Seriously...
ORIGINAL: scg87
Anytime you compare a pushrod engine to an over-head-cam one, the pushrod one will almost always come out lighter and smaller due to it's inherent design difference. An OHC motor is taller and wider, as well as comprised of more moving parts.So that automatically makes an OHC motor w/ more impressive power numbers and such less efficient??? So by your reasoning, an F1 engines that makes nearly 700hp out of a 2.4 NA 8 isn't efficient because it gets bad mileage andhas little (relatively)torque???
Anytime you compare a pushrod engine to an over-head-cam one, the pushrod one will almost always come out lighter and smaller due to it's inherent design difference. An OHC motor is taller and wider, as well as comprised of more moving parts.So that automatically makes an OHC motor w/ more impressive power numbers and such less efficient??? So by your reasoning, an F1 engines that makes nearly 700hp out of a 2.4 NA 8 isn't efficient because it gets bad mileage andhas little (relatively)torque???
We are comparing production engines, and you jump to F1?
Come now.
A F1 engine consists of close to 5000 parts of which around 1500 of those parts move.
Makes it's power around 20,000 rpms.
How much does it cost to keep one of those engines in good repair?
How much does it cost to buy a F1 engine?
Seriously...
There is no benefit by making more power per liter.
A F1 engine compared to a another larger displacement engine that has better reliability MUCH less cost?
Efficiency = Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time, effort and cost; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable.
Do you think F1 engines are efficient? If so how?
Efficient is a relative term. It depends on how you define it. Different engines are built for different purposes. An engine that is efficeint at one thing, may not beefficient at something else. If an engine accomplishes it's goal, and does so well, and.or better than the competition, then I'd consider it efficient. Regardless of engine size, weight, etc, etc.
As for total efficiency, meaning it has a good compromise of power, fuel economy, reliability, weight, dimensions, cost, complexity, so on and so forth, then I'd say the VQ35, 3.3 I6 in the E46 M3, K20and the LS1are at the top of the list....
5th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,250
From: NoDak
RE: Horsepower handout...
ORIGINAL: BicketyBam
I have to know. Scg87 - what do you drive? I know you had a 350Z at one point, but as for now, I am clueless.
I have to know. Scg87 - what do you drive? I know you had a 350Z at one point, but as for now, I am clueless.
5th Gear Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,427
From: CA
RE: Horsepower handout...
ORIGINAL: scg87
Well, your post was misleading, so I mistook what you were saying. As for the power numbers, most FI kits running 8 psi are less than 400whp. It's an out of the box, conservative tune. Supporting mods will take you past the 400 mark no problem. Turning up the boost just a little brings you to 450~whp relatively easily. The people pushing 500 are doing so w/ a great tune, high octane gas, and sometimes meth injection, but it's being done nonetheless. But why does it even matter??? What's so magical about that 500whp mark??? The VQ35 is a much higher compression engine than the modular 4.6, so of course it can't handle as much boost. WHy is this surprising???? Furthermore, why was the 350Z even bought up??? Other than the fact that everyone loves to hate it that is.....
Well, your post was misleading, so I mistook what you were saying. As for the power numbers, most FI kits running 8 psi are less than 400whp. It's an out of the box, conservative tune. Supporting mods will take you past the 400 mark no problem. Turning up the boost just a little brings you to 450~whp relatively easily. The people pushing 500 are doing so w/ a great tune, high octane gas, and sometimes meth injection, but it's being done nonetheless. But why does it even matter??? What's so magical about that 500whp mark??? The VQ35 is a much higher compression engine than the modular 4.6, so of course it can't handle as much boost. WHy is this surprising???? Furthermore, why was the 350Z even bought up??? Other than the fact that everyone loves to hate it that is.....
5th Gear Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,427
From: CA
RE: Horsepower handout...
ORIGINAL: scg87
There is plenty benefit of making more hp per liter if there is a restriction on engine size. F1 cars are limited to 2.4 V8's. Considering they make roughly 720-740hp, yes, I consider them efficient.
Efficient is a relative term. It depends on how you define it. Different engines are built for different purposes. An engine that is efficeint at one thing, may not be efficient at something else. If an engine accomplishes it's goal, and does so well, and.or better than the competition, then I'd consider it efficient. Regardless of engine size, weight, etc, etc.
As for total efficiency, meaning it has a good compromise of power, fuel economy, reliability, weight, dimensions, cost, complexity, so on and so forth, then I'd say the VQ35, 3.3 I6 in the E46 M3, K20 and the LS1 are at the top of the list....
ORIGINAL: MrRogers
There is no benefit by making more power per liter.
A F1 engine compared to a another larger displacement engine that has better reliability MUCH less cost?
Efficiency = Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time, effort and cost; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable.
Do you think F1 engines are efficient? If so how?
ORIGINAL: scg87
OMG. You're still not getting it. My point was that according to your logic it's not efficient. Is it, or is it not???
ORIGINAL: MrRogers
[sm=icon_rofl.gif]
We are comparing production engines, and you jump to F1?
Come now.
A F1 engine consists of close to 5000 parts of which around 1500 of those parts move.
Makes it's power around 20,000 rpms.
How much does it cost to keep one of those engines in good repair?
How much does it cost to buy a F1 engine?
Seriously...
ORIGINAL: scg87
Anytime you compare a pushrod engine to an over-head-cam one, the pushrod one will almost always come out lighter and smaller due to it's inherent design difference. An OHC motor is taller and wider, as well as comprised of more moving parts. So that automatically makes an OHC motor w/ more impressive power numbers and such less efficient??? So by your reasoning, an F1 engines that makes nearly 700hp out of a 2.4 NA 8 isn't efficient because it gets bad mileage and has little (relatively) torque???
Anytime you compare a pushrod engine to an over-head-cam one, the pushrod one will almost always come out lighter and smaller due to it's inherent design difference. An OHC motor is taller and wider, as well as comprised of more moving parts. So that automatically makes an OHC motor w/ more impressive power numbers and such less efficient??? So by your reasoning, an F1 engines that makes nearly 700hp out of a 2.4 NA 8 isn't efficient because it gets bad mileage and has little (relatively) torque???
We are comparing production engines, and you jump to F1?
Come now.
A F1 engine consists of close to 5000 parts of which around 1500 of those parts move.
Makes it's power around 20,000 rpms.
How much does it cost to keep one of those engines in good repair?
How much does it cost to buy a F1 engine?
Seriously...
There is no benefit by making more power per liter.
A F1 engine compared to a another larger displacement engine that has better reliability MUCH less cost?
Efficiency = Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time, effort and cost; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable.
Do you think F1 engines are efficient? If so how?
Efficient is a relative term. It depends on how you define it. Different engines are built for different purposes. An engine that is efficeint at one thing, may not be efficient at something else. If an engine accomplishes it's goal, and does so well, and.or better than the competition, then I'd consider it efficient. Regardless of engine size, weight, etc, etc.
As for total efficiency, meaning it has a good compromise of power, fuel economy, reliability, weight, dimensions, cost, complexity, so on and so forth, then I'd say the VQ35, 3.3 I6 in the E46 M3, K20 and the LS1 are at the top of the list....
Nothing wrong with that. I have always wanted to drive a F1 car. 5g turns OMG...
5th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,250
From: NoDak
RE: Horsepower handout...
Well, I didn't mean everyone in a literal sense. It just seems to be the perennial whipping boy around here. I guess because it's a direct competitor to the GT, and because the two are so close in performance. I don't see what the big deal is, though. I don't know why some can't like both. BEsides, good competition improves the breed. Mustang owners should be happy the Z is so close to the GT. And likewise for the Z owners....
6th Gear Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,278
From: Gainesville, FL
RE: Horsepower handout...
ORIGINAL: scg87
Well, I didn't mean everyone in a literal sense. It just seems to be the perennial whipping boy around here. I guess because it's a direct competitor to the GT, and because the two are so close in performance. I don't see what the big deal is, though. I don't know why some can't like both. BEsides, good competition improves the breed. Mustang owners should be happy the Z is so close to the GT. And likewise for the Z owners....
Well, I didn't mean everyone in a literal sense. It just seems to be the perennial whipping boy around here. I guess because it's a direct competitor to the GT, and because the two are so close in performance. I don't see what the big deal is, though. I don't know why some can't like both. BEsides, good competition improves the breed. Mustang owners should be happy the Z is so close to the GT. And likewise for the Z owners....
Now you want to start talking about compression? What was the compression ratio of the audi 4.2L in your comparison.
I do like the Z, it's some of the kids that drive them that I can't stand. I shouldn't have brought it up. It was a continuation of you running your mouth in another post and I appologize for being off topic.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,250
From: NoDak
RE: Horsepower handout...
ORIGINAL: moosestang
Now you want to start talking about compression? What was the compression ratio of the audi 4.2L in your comparison.
I do like the Z, it's some of the kids that drive them that I can't stand. I shouldn't have brought it up. It was a continuation of you running your mouth in another post and I appologize for being off topic.
ORIGINAL: scg87
Well, I didn't mean everyone in a literal sense. It just seems to be the perennial whipping boy around here. I guess because it's a direct competitor to the GT, and because the two are so close in performance. I don't see what the big deal is, though. I don't know why some can't like both. BEsides, good competition improves the breed. Mustang owners should be happy the Z is so close to the GT. And likewise for the Z owners....
Well, I didn't mean everyone in a literal sense. It just seems to be the perennial whipping boy around here. I guess because it's a direct competitor to the GT, and because the two are so close in performance. I don't see what the big deal is, though. I don't know why some can't like both. BEsides, good competition improves the breed. Mustang owners should be happy the Z is so close to the GT. And likewise for the Z owners....
Now you want to start talking about compression? What was the compression ratio of the audi 4.2L in your comparison.
I do like the Z, it's some of the kids that drive them that I can't stand. I shouldn't have brought it up. It was a continuation of you running your mouth in another post and I appologize for being off topic.
Care to provide a link to this thread where I was supposedly 'running my mouth'??? As if the Ford fanboys who run rampat here don't do that enough......
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