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Old Jul 24, 2011 | 09:25 PM
  #1  
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tyler72
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Default Help with planning and engine build

So my cobra is getting worse with its oil thirstiness... When I run the Cherohala Skyway and Deals gap, I use at least a quart of oil. It is very aggressive driving on these roads. When driven normally (like my grandma) it barely uses oil at all, but whats the fun in that?

My ultimate goal for the car is 550 RWHP, so obviously its gonna need forced induction. However, my wallet cannot support an engine build and a blower at the same time. Not to mention, I kinda want to gradually increase the power. I don't want to go from 300 Crank HP to 500 RWHP overnight. I want to take baby steps so I don't get in too deep and wreck the car. Gonna be a slight learning curve lol. Plus I want to go through the trans (or buy a built T-56) and upgrade the rear control arms before the blower too. So my plan is to build the engine adding durability parts to make it stronger so that it will hold up when the boost is thrown at it.

My plans are as follows:
Do any needed machine work, over bore, head job, etc. Maybe a mild port and polish job.
Mod Max brand 4340 H Beam rods
Probe forged pistons (stock C/R)
Hellfire file fit rings
ARP Main studs
ARP 2000 Head studs
Gasket set... Stock???
Timing set
Ford Racing high volume oil pump with pickup tube
King high performance rod and main bearings
Comp cams part number 106360 (XE266BH-116, nitrous/blower grind)
Comp Springs part number 26123
Custom Dyno tune done by In Tine Motor Sports in Charleston, TN.

My questions are about the gaskets and cams. Future plans include running about 12 lbs of boost in this thing. Planning on running a Kenne Bell because of how early they start building boost, and because they mount on top of the engine where a real super charger belongs. I don't want a front mount snail, sorry. So will stock style head gaskets hold up to that kind of boost with ~10:1 compression with the ARP 2000 studs? If no any suggestions on which ones to run and where to get them? Come in a kit? Blower is probably at least a year away but never hurts to plan ahead. As far as cams... Im not really sure what I want lol. If I go with the set listed above, I'll have to run the comp springs and retainers, which add roughly $500 to the price tag of the job. Or I could run the Comp part number 106160, which is the same grind, but for N/A. Comp doesn't list the springs as a requirement, so can I run the stock Cobra springs with these cams? Or would I still need the Comp springs (doesn't say they are required though)? Also, will either of these sets be big enough to reach 500-550 RWHP with the blower? Or should I get a Comp XE270AH-114 set (either N/A grind with or without springs, or the nitrous/blower grind)?

Am I on the right track here? Or do I need to rethink my plan? If you have any suggestions feel free to chime in. I have built many many engines, but Im brand new to the mod motor game!
Old Jul 24, 2011 | 09:48 PM
  #2  
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Originally Posted by tyler72
So my cobra is getting worse with its oil thirstiness... When I run the Cherohala Skyway and Deals gap, I use at least a quart of oil. It is very aggressive driving on these roads. When driven normally (like my grandma) it barely uses oil at all, but whats the fun in that?

My ultimate goal for the car is 550 RWHP, so obviously its gonna need forced induction. However, my wallet cannot support an engine build and a blower at the same time. Not to mention, I kinda want to gradually increase the power. I don't want to go from 300 Crank HP to 500 RWHP overnight. I want to take baby steps so I don't get in too deep and wreck the car. Gonna be a slight learning curve lol. Plus I want to go through the trans (or buy a built T-56) and upgrade the rear control arms before the blower too. So my plan is to build the engine adding durability parts to make it stronger so that it will hold up when the boost is thrown at it.

Ok well, let me stop you right there, you ARE gonna go from 300crank hp to whatever you end up at overnight... why? Because a motor build for boost will make the same or possibly less power UNTILL THE BOOST IS THERE.

My plans are as follows:
Do any needed machine work, over bore, head job, etc. Maybe a mild port and polish job.
Mod Max brand 4340 H Beam rods MMR also offers nice h beams for a good price
Probe forged pistons (stock C/R) Why not drop compression atleast half a point? more boost ftw
Hellfire file fit rings
ARP Main studs
ARP 2000 Head studs
Gasket set... Stock???
Timing set
Ford Racing high volume oil pump with pickup tube
King high performance rod and main bearings
Comp cams part number 106360 (XE266BH-116, nitrous/blower grind) A set of CUSTOM grind cams, for YOUR car is exactly the same price as any off the shelf cam
Comp Springs part number 26123
Custom Dyno tune done by In Tine Motor Sports in Charleston, TN.

My questions are about the gaskets and cams. Future plans include running about 12 lbs of boost in this thing. Planning on running a Kenne Bell because of how early they start building boost, and because they mount on top of the engine where a real super charger belongs. I don't want a front mount snail, sorry. So will stock style head gaskets hold up to that kind of boost with ~10:1 compression with the ARP 2000 studs? If no any suggestions on which ones to run and where to get them? Come in a kit? Blower is probably at least a year away but never hurts to plan ahead. As far as cams... Im not really sure what I want lol. If I go with the set listed above, I'll have to run the comp springs and retainers, which add roughly $500 to the price tag of the job. Or I could run the Comp part number 106160, which is the same grind, but for N/A. Comp doesn't list the springs as a requirement, so can I run the stock Cobra springs with these cams? Or would I still need the Comp springs (doesn't say they are required though)? Also, will either of these sets be big enough to reach 500-550 RWHP with the blower? Or should I get a Comp XE270AH-114 set (either N/A grind with or without springs, or the nitrous/blower grind)?

You seem kinda confused about valve springs... you will need stiffer springs to prevent valve float when your car sees high boost/rpm. Don't know why you would even consider putting a set of $1200 N/A cams in a boosted car The fact of the matter is, you don't even need cams to make 550whp.....ofc if you are in the heads its not a horrible idea. To see 550.. port and 18 lbs of boost,(estimated) no cams needed, can stock valve springs hold 18 lbs of boost... i'm not too sure, if you are keeping the redline @ 6850, maybe, i really am not sure.


The Kenne Bell, ahh yes, everyone loves a Kenne Bell, however is it for you. Unfortunetly they do NOT OFFER an intercooled set-up for a twin screw blower on bheaded cars, which is why i would never put one on a bheaded car. Whats so bad about a centri blower? You are in useable boost in no time.... the "lag" isn't as bad as you probably think...how long does it take you to get to 3200 RPM WOT?


Am I on the right track here? Or do I need to rethink my plan? If you have any suggestions feel free to chime in. I have built many many engines, but Im brand new to the mod motor game!
I put my thoughts in bold, let me know if you have any questions.
Old Jul 24, 2011 | 10:18 PM
  #3  
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My thoughts were the same as your's on the valve springs... but I don't plan on really raising the rev limiter in the tune so I didn't know If I would need to worry about float or not. BUT, the springs do have almost 100k on them so it couldn't hurt to upgrade. The cams... well I guess I should call Comp and see what they recommend, or call Scott (owner of In Tune) and see if he has any suggested grinds for the cams. I don't want to lower the compression because it may be a while before I can afford the blower, and everything I'll need for the car to make it handle the extra power. The trans, clutch, and rear suspension will also need attention to put the power of the blower to the ground, so its more than "just the blower." I just don't want a slower car while Im saving funds for the blower. Although... I could lower the compression just a tad and with the cams it should still make good power. But do I really need 18 lbs of boost to see 550 with the cams??? Im hoping not as the KB would be REALLY hot there, like you said, no IC. I am fully aware of that. That's why I was hoping to keep stock compression with cams and lower boost pressure to reach my power goals. I simply cannot afford to do engine and blower at the same time. And if the car runs good enough N/A, I might leave it alone for a couple of years, who knows...

I do like your idea about the cams though! Should I just call them or do you have some suggestions?
Old Jul 24, 2011 | 11:09 PM
  #4  
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Originally Posted by tyler72
My thoughts were the same as your's on the valve springs... but I don't plan on really raising the rev limiter in the tune so I didn't know If I would need to worry about float or not. BUT, the springs do have almost 100k on them so it couldn't hurt to upgrade. The cams... well I guess I should call Comp and see what they recommend, or call Scott (owner of In Tune) and see if he has any suggested grinds for the cams. I don't want to lower the compression because it may be a while before I can afford the blower, and everything I'll need for the car to make it handle the extra power. The trans, clutch, and rear suspension will also need attention to put the power of the blower to the ground, so its more than "just the blower." I just don't want a slower car while Im saving funds for the blower. Although... I could lower the compression just a tad and with the cams it should still make good power. But do I really need 18 lbs of boost to see 550 with the cams??? Im hoping not as the KB would be REALLY hot there, like you said, no IC. I am fully aware of that. That's why I was hoping to keep stock compression with cams and lower boost pressure to reach my power goals. I simply cannot afford to do engine and blower at the same time. And if the car runs good enough N/A, I might leave it alone for a couple of years, who knows...

I do like your idea about the cams though! Should I just call them or do you have some suggestions?
When and if i ever get around to it, Jim Cushman will probably end up doing my custom grinds, he owns cushman motor sports and is a member on this site though im not sure if he's still active. Hi-tech also is a good company that will custom grind cams for you.

Reguarding cams. If you put N/A cams in your car, yes you will pick up good power before it is blown but they will make almost no difference, hell maybe even hurt you when it comes time to bring forced induction into play. If you put custom grinds/blower cams in, it might hurt your performance while N/A, or will net you near 0 gain (won't physically hurt the motor) So you might as well just wait untill you can afford both.

Here's the way i look at it, by staying with >12lbs of boost you're gonna spend atleast $1300 on cams, might as well do a little valvetrain work, hell with 18 lbs i don't even know if you need a port to make 550whp on a 4 valve. 2 valve guys on here are making that (ported heads but irrc still not flowing as well as stock 4 valve heads). A pulley is much cheaper than cams/ and or a port, though i feel you would not be far from 550whp with 12lbs and cams, even unported. You're probably gonna end up spending ~$2k more+ the difference of the supercharger kits to make the same power if you want to keep it around 12psi with a kenne bell, on cams and valvesprings.

I don't see why you couldn't see 550whp on stock valvetrain and 18+lbs of boost with an intercooled centri. But its your car, and thats what it comes down to so get what you really want.
Old Jul 25, 2011 | 05:18 AM
  #5  
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let me just throw the idea out of a whipple they fit up easier and were made as a ford aftermarket part there about the same price and i think look cooler lol...just an idea
Old Jul 25, 2011 | 05:36 AM
  #6  
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You set a HP target, but you don't really say what you want to do with the car.

Any pro engine builder would have shown you the door and told you to come back when you have a clue.

What is your objective with the car? Bragging rights? Power Tour? Drag racing? Road racing? Drifting? Daily Driver (your only car)?

None of these gets the same build.

Step by step questions:

1. primary use?
2. secondary use?
3. compromises needed on 1. because of 2.?
4. budget?
5. self build?
etc...
Old Jul 25, 2011 | 08:20 AM
  #7  
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Good point! That might help haha.

The car will be a street car. Power tour would be cool, ran it part way in my 72 in 2010. I doubt it will ever see strip time, BUT I might take it down there every once and a while. It is not my daily driver, but is a back up vehicle. I am really into road racing. Which is what the build is going to be targeting. There are several cobra guys around here running hopped up termi's, and it would be nice to give them a reality check every once and a while. Everyone needs a little humbling every now and then.

I am not against a whipple, but as far as I know, they don't make them for b-headed cars do they?

After talking to you guys, I think I will def go with blower style cams now. I don't see how they could hurt performance, as long as it isn't worse than stock lol. So that way they are there and ready to go once forced induction comes into play. I can put the blower on, injectors, pump, and whatever else I will need and then just get it re-tuned and I should be good to go for some serious neck snapping power.

Today I am planning on running up to in tune to talk to Scott. They build these things all the time and usually end up around 600-700 RWHP on average. So getting a streetable 550 should be easy for him. We are pretty good friends, so he will be doing all of the tuning once I get done building it.

Last edited by tyler72; Jul 25, 2011 at 08:24 AM.
Old Jul 26, 2011 | 06:54 AM
  #8  
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Well, I went up to In tune yesterday and talked with Scott about the engine. He looked at the comp cams I put in my list, and they are actually extremely close to what he has used in the past on his custom grind stuff for boosted cars like mine. He said ha actually like them quite a bit, and that they would work well in my car. So I asked about the compression and the whole waiting on the blower/doing this in stages idea. He said that doing the bottom end and the cams now definitely wouldn't hurt anything, but I shouldn't expect to see a whole lot of power increase. He also highly recommended that I lower the compression down to 03/04 termi specs... OR said I could keep stock 96 cobra specs, but it would really limit me to 10 lbs of boost max. Also said that even with doing the build 100% correctly, 550 RWHP is probably asking a little much without a shot of spray, but Im not going to go there. I'd rather just deal with a little less power for what Im doing with the car.

Basically, I think I am just going to try and swing it all at once; blower, bottom end, cams, injectors, pump, trans, clutch, etc. I'll de-tune the car and put on a larger pulley if it makes too much power for me to be comfortable with it. I trust myself, but I really like the car and I don't want to wreck it.
Old Jul 26, 2011 | 01:19 PM
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lol if you de-tune the car it'll probably bkow up, just get a bigger pulley lol and a re-tune.
Old Jul 26, 2011 | 06:15 PM
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That's what I meant by "de-tune"... less boost and a tune to work with less boost. Then after a few months of driving, swap to a smaller pulley, re-flash, and let it rip!



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