When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
2000 v6. The car has not been run for a year cause I lost the key. Battery removed for over 6 months. Parked indoors.
I recently found the key. I installed a good battery. The lights come on instrument panel comes alive, with the exception of the fuel tank gage. Its full but stays on empty. I do not hear the fuel pump run when turning key to on.
I turn key to start and engine cranks well, but no start and fuel gage always says empty.
Does this sound like a PATS key issue? Any other thoughts?
I found this thread that was a V8 https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...lar-mustang-7/
My car is a 02 convertible and we only drive it during the summer. So it been down a year and I just replace the battery. Check the cut off switch.
I can prime it (little gas down the air breather) and it will fire up, then die. After a few times, I figured I need to troubleshoot the fuel pump. Googling trying to find wire diagrams I came across the above thread. Somewhere I read the fuel pump is only on for a few seconds, not sure how I can test this by my self.
Anyway just curious what you found.
Something I read may me think voltage was only applied while cranking. First I did have power into and out of the cut off switch. Also, if I looked at the diagram correctly, I did have power to the pump. While I had the car in the air and since I had one, I replaced the fuel filter. Then the car started. When I blew through the fuel filter it was restricted, but I did not think it would keep it from running. I even opened the filter up to see if there was any debris or water. All looked ok. So I let the car down, and it would not start. Don't have a fuel pressure gauge, but when I press on the schrader valve, barely a drop comes out. I am starting to think it's the fuel pump.
Probably so. Pull the pump and test it out of the car, if it spins then keep looking, if it doesn't then it is definitely the pump. Similar thing happened to my supra after being out of town for a year, when I returned both pumps had seized
I found this thread that was a V8 https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...lar-mustang-7/
My car is a 02 convertible and we only drive it during the summer. So it been down a year and I just replace the battery. Check the cut off switch.
I can prime it (little gas down the air breather) and it will fire up, then die. After a few times, I figured I need to troubleshoot the fuel pump. Googling trying to find wire diagrams I came across the above thread. Somewhere I read the fuel pump is only on for a few seconds, not sure how I can test this by my self.
Anyway just curious what you found.
Turn key ON, pump runs 2 seconds, shuts off. Soon as key is turned to "START", pump runs continuously while cranking, when engine starts and runs, pump continues to run, key in ON position pump continues to run so long as the engine runs. If engines stalls, pump shuts off after 2 seconds.
Ford did this so those who have need for power to accessories with engine not running, but key ON, pump would not be running all the time under those conditions, dangerous, and unnecessary pump wear.
Fuel pump 02 Mustang V6
Dropped the tank and benched tested the pump. I made sure it was dry and blew out as much of the fumes as I could to be as safe as possible. It was definitely bad.
I had a theory that cars that sit a lot, the brushes/armature gets corroded. One that is driven every day from natural ware stays clean. So I had to open it up and take a look.
Never had one apart, so I am not sure what would be normal. The brushes had no spring in them, could be the armature is what moves. Does not make sense to me if that is the case. Hard to tell in the picture, but armature copper is pretty dark. All this is just academical any way, the pump would not spin up.
That is the summary so far, the long story is I learned some lessons the hard way dropping the tank.
The first issue, the tank was full. I had no control over that. Tried to push a tube down the filler neck, but it is blocked. So I started dropping the tank and I could not get it off the filler neck. As I started lowering it down to slide it over, it fell off the jack. Now I had access to the top of the tank, so I thought I would just replace the pump in place. As I loosen the screws that hold the top seal to the tank, the angle allowed fuel to run out. I tighten them up quickly and I am fortunate that this garage is what I call a pass-through. There are garage doors on both ends and they were opened. There was a good breeze and I waited for any fumes to escape. This is a newer house, so building codes has it sealed up from carbon monoxide and fumes tend to be heavier than air. Still, I was soaked with gas because I was laying on the floor and very blessed that things did not go south. Well, go south in a dangerous way. So going back to try and remove the tank off of the filler tube, could not get it and eventually breaking it off in the tank. More on that later.
Filler neck 02 Mustang V6
At least now I have the tank level and could drain it. So I pull the fuel pump can out and start the siphon. I started pulling the broken part of the filler neck out. I thought I had broken it off because of a bind and that may be somewhat true except, with no bind, I could not get it out. It was almost like it was glued to the gasket. Being garage kept and not even driven in the rain, there is no rot. I busted it into pieces trying to pull it out. Which of course some of the parts fell into the tank. With the tank empty, I could move it around and I think I got it all, laying out the parts, it looks like I am missing some. My mistake is looking from the bottom, I thought the neck passed through a plate. When I went to pull the neck, I learned it is a rubber gasket. So if I would have taken the screws loose from the body at the top, like in the video, there would have been more play and if that bind is what cause it to be stuck, could have saved me a filler neck.
The part I bought from Rockauto did not fit. I tried to replace just the pump. I am more about experimenting with a car I do not depend on every day, so I bought a cheaper pump $20 shipping. I found a complete can and fuel sending the unit on Amazone prime for $30.
Here you can see the pump putting pressure on the connecting tube.
Fuel pump canister 02 Mustang V6
Well now in a waiting period while I source the filer neck.
It's not the brushes or the armature that goes bad, the gears in the pump get corroded from sitting. The gas turns into some syrupy crap and then hardens. You can free it up and use it again, if you have it apart. Sorry to hear about your debacle, hope you get it sorted out.
Fuel pump 02 Mustang V6
Dropped the tank and benched tested the pump. I made sure it was dry and blew out as much of the fumes as I could to be as safe as possible. It was definitely bad.
I had a theory that cars that sit a lot, the brushes/armature gets corroded. One that is driven every day from natural ware stays clean. So I had to open it up and take a look.
Never had one apart, so I am not sure what would be normal. The brushes had no spring in them, could be the armature is what moves. Does not make sense to me if that is the case. Hard to tell in the picture, but armature copper is pretty dark. All this is just academical any way, the pump would not spin up.
That is the summary so far, the long story is I learned some lessons the hard way dropping the tank.
The first issue, the tank was full. I had no control over that. Tried to push a tube down the filler neck, but it is blocked. So I started dropping the tank and I could not get it off the filler neck. As I started lowering it down to slide it over, it fell off the jack. Now I had access to the top of the tank, so I thought I would just replace the pump in place. As I loosen the screws that hold the top seal to the tank, the angle allowed fuel to run out. I tighten them up quickly and I am fortunate that this garage is what I call a pass-through. There are garage doors on both ends and they were opened. There was a good breeze and I waited for any fumes to escape. This is a newer house, so building codes has it sealed up from carbon monoxide and fumes tend to be heavier than air. Still, I was soaked with gas because I was laying on the floor and very blessed that things did not go south. Well, go south in a dangerous way. So going back to try and remove the tank off of the filler tube, could not get it and eventually breaking it off in the tank. More on that later.
Filler neck 02 Mustang V6
At least now I have the tank level and could drain it. So I pull the fuel pump can out and start the siphon. I started pulling the broken part of the filler neck out. I thought I had broken it off because of a bind and that may be somewhat true except, with no bind, I could not get it out. It was almost like it was glued to the gasket. Being garage kept and not even driven in the rain, there is no rot. I busted it into pieces trying to pull it out. Which of course some of the parts fell into the tank. With the tank empty, I could move it around and I think I got it all, laying out the parts, it looks like I am missing some. My mistake is looking from the bottom, I thought the neck passed through a plate. When I went to pull the neck, I learned it is a rubber gasket. So if I would have taken the screws loose from the body at the top, like in the video, there would have been more play and if that bind is what cause it to be stuck, could have saved me a filler neck.
The part I bought from Rockauto did not fit. I tried to replace just the pump. I am more about experimenting with a car I do not depend on every day, so I bought a cheaper pump $20 shipping. I found a complete can and fuel sending the unit on Amazone prime for $30.
Here you can see the pump putting pressure on the connecting tube.
Fuel pump canister 02 Mustang V6
Well now in a waiting period while I source the filer neck.
I applaud your aggressive action looking inside of the motor! Actually, I was under the impression they used brushless permanent magnet motors, and maybe some, many, do. If those brushes EVER got exposed to air, due to very low fuel level, maybe, sparking, guess what?
I applaud your aggressive action looking inside of the motor! Actually, I was under the impression they used brushless permanent magnet motors, and maybe some, many, do. If those brushes EVER got exposed to air, due to very low fuel level, maybe, sparking, guess what?
I spent a little more time last night. My understanding is brushless motors did not become popular until the electronics were available to move the magnetic field. I do hope car manufacturers are taking advantage of them (brushless motors) now. Not only the sparking issue but also the issue I had.
Notice in this picture where I un-jammed one of the brushes.
The brushes are kind of messed up since I was trying to use a needle nose to grab it. I used a screwdriver and flipped around and it came unstuck.
After unsticking the other one I put it back together and it actually spun up.
Here is another strange thing, if I am looking at this right, the armature is the impeller. It does not look like the armature drives one. There are no key or slots on the shaft of the armature to drive anything. Also, if you look at the bottom and top you can see the inlet is the bottom and the outlet is the top. So fuel is flowing around the brushes and commutator.
Nothing like I was expecting.
Paid a visit to the local PullAPart, they had on 02 Mustang, that is the good news. The bad news is someone pulled the tank and the filler neck was broke. I did find one, not sure what year it was. Someone had pulled the pumped and it was still hanging by the filer neck. Good news is they left the round holder, so that was holding the weight.
This is a picture of the good end. There is a picture of mine in an earlier post. Now I am really concerned about missing pieces. I don't remember seeing the spring for one thing. At least the tank is empty now so I can really shake it.
02-09-2019, 08:26 PM
Also, Car Wont Start?
