For those who Bashed Bash Perf.
12-16-2006, 04:43 AM
#31
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 802
RE: For those who Bashed Bash Perf.
ORIGINAL: 4wheelkillr
this is my last post since this is a pointless discussion...
you said "large wings like that aren't needed on ANY drag car"...obviously you're wrong...
I dont care if you took a ride once in an FR500C...it doesnt change the fact that the big wing on Bash's car is still retarded...
I admit those whale tail spoilers on some cars MAY help...on this car noway...i'm not going to talk physics but 12 sqaure inches of vertical plastic does nothing to help stability on a 3,000 pound car moving at only 150mph...like flattening your palm and pretending to fly it thru the wind out the window of a moving car when you were a kid...even at 100mph you can keep your hand from moving...now imagine if your arm weighed 3000 lbs...it'd be useless...now the wide horizontal part that runs parallel to the trunk sure that may provide some down force...but enough to be noticed on big fat *** cars like this in races under 150mph?...Granted I dont know the real measurements. Put a car in a windtunnel and measure the weight on the rear wheels with no wind and with 150mph wind...how much would the downforce be...I have no idea...although I will admit that even 100 or 200lbs of downforce on a racecar is better than nothing...but on a road course the two numbers are somewhat mutually antagonistic. The faster you go the more force is generated on the wing, however the tighter the turn, the slower the entry speeds must be and the slower the speed the greater the reduction of force on the wing. The wider the turn the faster the speed but the less downforce is needed on the wing since the turn is wider...OBVIOUSLY it's a give and take...
But you're right...I've never been on a road track with my car...only 1/4 mile...however I've been racing 600cc sportbikes for over 8 years now (ending last year when I sold all my stuff) (hence the name 4wheelkillr) so I have more than a basic knowledge of racing...
and don't knock the term "Ricer"...maybe you should trade your car in for an STi and join the crowd if you're a true sympathizer...
Ricer's been a round for a long time, derogatory or not it describes a feud between the fart-can, whale-tail, low CC crowd and the rest of us who like to make real HP...and just like Ford vs. Chevy it's a rivalry that's not going away...the word "Ricer" is not ignorant...it's just a slang to poke fun at our rivals...and it goes BOTH ways...
$hit i wrote all that...what a waste of my/your time....
blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda
this is my last post since this is a pointless discussion...
you said "large wings like that aren't needed on ANY drag car"...obviously you're wrong...
I dont care if you took a ride once in an FR500C...it doesnt change the fact that the big wing on Bash's car is still retarded...
I admit those whale tail spoilers on some cars MAY help...on this car noway...i'm not going to talk physics but 12 sqaure inches of vertical plastic does nothing to help stability on a 3,000 pound car moving at only 150mph...like flattening your palm and pretending to fly it thru the wind out the window of a moving car when you were a kid...even at 100mph you can keep your hand from moving...now imagine if your arm weighed 3000 lbs...it'd be useless...now the wide horizontal part that runs parallel to the trunk sure that may provide some down force...but enough to be noticed on big fat *** cars like this in races under 150mph?...Granted I dont know the real measurements. Put a car in a windtunnel and measure the weight on the rear wheels with no wind and with 150mph wind...how much would the downforce be...I have no idea...although I will admit that even 100 or 200lbs of downforce on a racecar is better than nothing...but on a road course the two numbers are somewhat mutually antagonistic. The faster you go the more force is generated on the wing, however the tighter the turn, the slower the entry speeds must be and the slower the speed the greater the reduction of force on the wing. The wider the turn the faster the speed but the less downforce is needed on the wing since the turn is wider...OBVIOUSLY it's a give and take...
But you're right...I've never been on a road track with my car...only 1/4 mile...however I've been racing 600cc sportbikes for over 8 years now (ending last year when I sold all my stuff) (hence the name 4wheelkillr) so I have more than a basic knowledge of racing...
and don't knock the term "Ricer"...maybe you should trade your car in for an STi and join the crowd if you're a true sympathizer...
Ricer's been a round for a long time, derogatory or not it describes a feud between the fart-can, whale-tail, low CC crowd and the rest of us who like to make real HP...and just like Ford vs. Chevy it's a rivalry that's not going away...the word "Ricer" is not ignorant...it's just a slang to poke fun at our rivals...and it goes BOTH ways...
$hit i wrote all that...what a waste of my/your time....
blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda
God dude I am surprised you wrote all of that, and still none of it has a point, you need seat time in a road race car friend, and as far as buying an STI I wouldn't mind one, they are amazing cars and I know several that would give many of the cars on here a good run and then win. Why must I be a "Ricer Sympathizer"? why not performance oriented? And no offense I have never raced a bike and some basics may be the same but still more differences. You are trying to type as much as possible so it sounds like it has meaning but there is none other than a flat surface provides no down force, well no kidding its a good thing the wing is not truly parallel with the trunk huh. Honestly I think the STI is a great car if you want handling and there are a few I know with 400+ hp. Maybe you should stick with your bike. As I said if they hold true with racing the car even if only a few times then the wing has purpose, whether you like its look or not. I'm sorry you don't understand, and I am sorry I cannot find another way to explain it to you but IF they race the car as they have said they plan to then as retarded as it looks it has a function. Also consider their point was to closely emulate the GTSR which had a large wing like that as well, so there is yet another purpose as retarded as it may look. Its a useless argument without knowing the future of the car if they do not race it yes its useless if they do it has a use.
my last post on this and my las $0.02 on the issue of the functionality of large deck wings.
12-16-2006, 05:55 AM
#32
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 853
RE: For those who Bashed Bash Perf.
While I have no idea if the bash spoiler is really a functional design.. I can tell you that a rear spoiler at 150 pmh can be very functional or disfunctional.
I'm probably one of the few people on this board that has actually toyed around with a real wind tunnel. (The upside to going to ERAU for a few years and knowing everyone in the sciences/engineering building)
The dynamics of the car can be changed by a rear spoiler with out question. Now the argument over how functional it is, well that is a mute point.
Now to setup a race car, the forces applied by the design of the body (front air dams, under body panels, spoiler, etc) not only have to be adjusted for the speeds the vechicle will be run at, it also has to match with the weight of the vechicle and most important it has to match the suspension. To much down force and not enough suspension is just as bad as not enough down force.
Very few people would actually setup the car to run properly unless you built it strictly for racing and even then only if you are really serious about it.
Still my favorite vechicle design for high speed cruising is the Bentley GT, which does not just have a rear spoiler that pops up and becomes functional after it reachs a certain speed, the suspension also lowers the vechicle and adjusts for better handling at high speeds. Race car setups are all fine and good when on the track, but I much rather have a car that can cruise at 150+ mph on the highway and do it smoothly yet still be able to drive around town and not feel every groove and worry about scraping over every dip.
I'm probably one of the few people on this board that has actually toyed around with a real wind tunnel. (The upside to going to ERAU for a few years and knowing everyone in the sciences/engineering building)
The dynamics of the car can be changed by a rear spoiler with out question. Now the argument over how functional it is, well that is a mute point.
Now to setup a race car, the forces applied by the design of the body (front air dams, under body panels, spoiler, etc) not only have to be adjusted for the speeds the vechicle will be run at, it also has to match with the weight of the vechicle and most important it has to match the suspension. To much down force and not enough suspension is just as bad as not enough down force.
Very few people would actually setup the car to run properly unless you built it strictly for racing and even then only if you are really serious about it.
Still my favorite vechicle design for high speed cruising is the Bentley GT, which does not just have a rear spoiler that pops up and becomes functional after it reachs a certain speed, the suspension also lowers the vechicle and adjusts for better handling at high speeds. Race car setups are all fine and good when on the track, but I much rather have a car that can cruise at 150+ mph on the highway and do it smoothly yet still be able to drive around town and not feel every groove and worry about scraping over every dip.
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