Slotted and drilled Rotors
01-15-2007, 10:43 AM
#41
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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RE: Slotted and drilled Rotors
ZZ, I know you're upset for my BS comment in my first post in this thread.
Yes, I said that, and in hindsight I shouldn't have. That is why I apologized in a later post. However, inmy VERY FIRST POSTI not only stated my opinion on the matter, but I also explained why I belived the first post to be wrong--in detail. I then cited evidence from an established expert in the industry (Wilwood) AND further referances in peer-reviewed literature that are written and scrutinized by professional engineers. The Stoptech and Baer information that was posted later in the thread also supports my claim.
For the record I have a mechanical engineering degree. I am an engineer by trade, and I have been wrenching for years. I even studied brake systems when I was in graduate school. I think I am more qualified to comment on this subject than a no-name Chinese company that is trying to sell people something.
Just becasue people buy "stock type" slotted rotors doesn't make them work. As I went over before, there are literally millions of people who buy "***** enlargement pills" or "breast enlargement tablets" every year. Just becasue these products sell thatdoesn't make them work.How about snake oil? Magic healing crystals? Ozone air purifiers? Those "tornado" air intake products? Or putting hugewings on Hondas "for traction" One million ricers can't be wrong....
You have stated "your opinion" which as I mentioned before, is literally cut-and-pasted from the advertisement of a Chinese brake rotor dealer on Ebay. In academia that is called plagarism. You then offerno further evidence or argument to back it up. The reason why my opinion is "worth more" is simply becasue I have explained the facts and cited both industry and academic support, whereas you have offered nothing in support of your claim.
As I have explained in a later post inthis thread, NOWHERE I am claiming that all slotted/drilled rotors are worse than solid rotors as an all-encompassing rule. My point has simply been that the statments made in the OP post are factually wrong. If you want a slotted/drilled rotor and you want it to be at least as effective as a solid rotor, then it must be made larger to compensate for the material lost by the drilling--such as the Brembo, Baer, and similar 'big brake' kits. Those products are excellent. But the products depicted in the OP's post areno better than OEM. A drilled rotor will have similar or worse performance than a solid rotor of the same size.
Sleeper, that was terribly funny. Thanks for starting my day with a laugh.I hear that someone issecretly working on a high-tech "kart" style band-brake kit for these cars.....[sm=ts.gif]
Yes, I said that, and in hindsight I shouldn't have. That is why I apologized in a later post. However, inmy VERY FIRST POSTI not only stated my opinion on the matter, but I also explained why I belived the first post to be wrong--in detail. I then cited evidence from an established expert in the industry (Wilwood) AND further referances in peer-reviewed literature that are written and scrutinized by professional engineers. The Stoptech and Baer information that was posted later in the thread also supports my claim.
For the record I have a mechanical engineering degree. I am an engineer by trade, and I have been wrenching for years. I even studied brake systems when I was in graduate school. I think I am more qualified to comment on this subject than a no-name Chinese company that is trying to sell people something.
Just becasue people buy "stock type" slotted rotors doesn't make them work. As I went over before, there are literally millions of people who buy "***** enlargement pills" or "breast enlargement tablets" every year. Just becasue these products sell thatdoesn't make them work.How about snake oil? Magic healing crystals? Ozone air purifiers? Those "tornado" air intake products? Or putting hugewings on Hondas "for traction" One million ricers can't be wrong....
You have stated "your opinion" which as I mentioned before, is literally cut-and-pasted from the advertisement of a Chinese brake rotor dealer on Ebay. In academia that is called plagarism. You then offerno further evidence or argument to back it up. The reason why my opinion is "worth more" is simply becasue I have explained the facts and cited both industry and academic support, whereas you have offered nothing in support of your claim.
As I have explained in a later post inthis thread, NOWHERE I am claiming that all slotted/drilled rotors are worse than solid rotors as an all-encompassing rule. My point has simply been that the statments made in the OP post are factually wrong. If you want a slotted/drilled rotor and you want it to be at least as effective as a solid rotor, then it must be made larger to compensate for the material lost by the drilling--such as the Brembo, Baer, and similar 'big brake' kits. Those products are excellent. But the products depicted in the OP's post areno better than OEM. A drilled rotor will have similar or worse performance than a solid rotor of the same size.
Sleeper, that was terribly funny. Thanks for starting my day with a laugh.I hear that someone issecretly working on a high-tech "kart" style band-brake kit for these cars.....[sm=ts.gif]
01-15-2007, 10:58 AM
#43
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 956
RE: Slotted and drilled Rotors
No original Name
Here’s the deal indeed.
I started the thread to have discussions on the subject, Crazyal starts out his post with, my post is BS, Yea that’s a discussion starter. and you say I'm pissingon the posts of someone who is actually trying to enlighten the masses. That’s a clue to your judgment. And then you know somehow of my experience "You're a less experienced poster" Just how would you come to that conclusion?
I have a brake specialist certification hanging on the wall . I don't think Slotted and drilled rotors are all that important on a street vehicle but if someone else said they thought they were , I wouldn't say there post is BS, but that’s me.
And somehow you have the ***** to say to me that I'm a "self-righteous *****" while hiding behind a computer screen, That takes guts bud.
The 1,000s of engineers that work in the Brake industry and support there findings with facts mean nothing, Crazyals opinion and his facts mean everything, there's some real brain power going on there.
I came to this site to discuss subjects about cars, not to argue with idiots, just because its a cut-n-paste don't mean it can't be discussed. Even Crazyals points were made with reference to other places but somehow that’s ok? you can't have a discussion with someone on a subject without calling them names, well that’s fine you self-righteous *****, That sure has a lot to do with the subject.
Here’s the deal indeed.
I started the thread to have discussions on the subject, Crazyal starts out his post with, my post is BS, Yea that’s a discussion starter. and you say I'm pissingon the posts of someone who is actually trying to enlighten the masses. That’s a clue to your judgment. And then you know somehow of my experience "You're a less experienced poster" Just how would you come to that conclusion?
I have a brake specialist certification hanging on the wall . I don't think Slotted and drilled rotors are all that important on a street vehicle but if someone else said they thought they were , I wouldn't say there post is BS, but that’s me.
And somehow you have the ***** to say to me that I'm a "self-righteous *****" while hiding behind a computer screen, That takes guts bud.
The 1,000s of engineers that work in the Brake industry and support there findings with facts mean nothing, Crazyals opinion and his facts mean everything, there's some real brain power going on there.
I came to this site to discuss subjects about cars, not to argue with idiots, just because its a cut-n-paste don't mean it can't be discussed. Even Crazyals points were made with reference to other places but somehow that’s ok? you can't have a discussion with someone on a subject without calling them names, well that’s fine you self-righteous *****, That sure has a lot to do with the subject.
01-15-2007, 11:04 AM
#44
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 956
RE: Slotted and drilled Rotors
Crazyal
The first couple of post set this off in the wrong direction with me and you so lets just stop.
I started the thread to disscuss slotted rotor. I don't think they are good, it was a cut-n-paste to have a disscussion, you can discuss Cut-n-paste, it's alright.
Kinda like a cut and paste on comaros, That don't mean I wrote it or like them, just a subject to discuss.
The first couple of post set this off in the wrong direction with me and you so lets just stop.
I started the thread to disscuss slotted rotor. I don't think they are good, it was a cut-n-paste to have a disscussion, you can discuss Cut-n-paste, it's alright.
Kinda like a cut and paste on comaros, That don't mean I wrote it or like them, just a subject to discuss.
01-15-2007, 12:28 PM
#45
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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Posts: 701
RE: Slotted and drilled Rotors
Wow, I can't believe I just read ALL the way through this thread in 1 sitting. Actually I did get up once 
. I sure learned a lot thank you guys for the material and the knowledge shared. When you know very little about brakes, it is easy to listen to the manufacturers and buy into their hype. If you buy into everything these advertisers say, I could forward you some junk email to increase your member by up to 3" 
.
ZZmustang, thanks for starting the thread. It was a good discussion that will prove valuable for anyone that really wants to understand the value of these different rotors without having to get the information from the people that are selling something. I think you are taking CrazyAl's first comment there too personal. He said the post was BS, not that he thinks you are full of it. Unless you really did believe that stuff in that cut-and-paste and you were puttingit up as you were sharing factual information rather than posting for discussion. If you really believed that stuff, consider CrazyAl's first comment there as a friendly slap to bring you back to your senses [sm=alcoholic.gif](I mean that in the best possible way). -Joe
. I sure learned a lot thank you guys for the material and the knowledge shared. When you know very little about brakes, it is easy to listen to the manufacturers and buy into their hype. If you buy into everything these advertisers say, I could forward you some junk email to increase your member by up to 3" .ZZmustang, thanks for starting the thread. It was a good discussion that will prove valuable for anyone that really wants to understand the value of these different rotors without having to get the information from the people that are selling something. I think you are taking CrazyAl's first comment there too personal. He said the post was BS, not that he thinks you are full of it. Unless you really did believe that stuff in that cut-and-paste and you were puttingit up as you were sharing factual information rather than posting for discussion. If you really believed that stuff, consider CrazyAl's first comment there as a friendly slap to bring you back to your senses [sm=alcoholic.gif](I mean that in the best possible way). -Joe
01-15-2007, 12:57 PM
#46
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RE: Slotted and drilled Rotors
Joe
No problem, And as I stated a few times on this thread, I don't believe in slotted/drilled rotors for the street, However that was just my opinion and that’s the reason I started the thread, for discussion.
Some people have to resort to name calling or calling the post BS in order to make them feel good , I guess. It makes no difference if someone’s post is a cut-n-paste or not, calling it BS is not the way to discuss.
Example
"The bible says" and the response to that would be that book is BS. There’s no discussion there, You get what I mean?
No problem, And as I stated a few times on this thread, I don't believe in slotted/drilled rotors for the street, However that was just my opinion and that’s the reason I started the thread, for discussion.
Some people have to resort to name calling or calling the post BS in order to make them feel good , I guess. It makes no difference if someone’s post is a cut-n-paste or not, calling it BS is not the way to discuss.
Example
"The bible says" and the response to that would be that book is BS. There’s no discussion there, You get what I mean?
01-15-2007, 01:42 PM
#47
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 825
RE: Slotted and drilled Rotors
From what Ive been told by road racer enthusiasts, (WGI &Lime Rock regulars):
Slotted: For outgassing. Today's pads much better now, outgassing is almost eliminated, no need for slots
Drilled: Really for looks only. Used to be to save weight, not needed anymore, and actually compromises the integrity of the rotor. Easy to replace with a sponsored budget. Most people not at liberty to go through rotors like Dixie cups.
Drlled and slotted looks cool, but not needed....
Slotted: For outgassing. Today's pads much better now, outgassing is almost eliminated, no need for slots
Drilled: Really for looks only. Used to be to save weight, not needed anymore, and actually compromises the integrity of the rotor. Easy to replace with a sponsored budget. Most people not at liberty to go through rotors like Dixie cups.
Drlled and slotted looks cool, but not needed....
01-15-2007, 02:25 PM
#49
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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RE: Slotted and drilled Rotors
For the record I have a mechanical engineering degree. I am an engineer by trade, and I have been wrenching for years. I even studied brake systems when I was in graduate school. I think I am more qualified to comment on this subject than a no-name Chinese company that is trying to sell people something.
To get to the point. As mentioned above, cross drilling and slotting were only invented todissapate gasses andsave weight.We have set up and ranmany a car for track use atLime rock,TheGlen, and Pocono. With modern pads.Usually, the only thing improper(and sometimes proper) cross drilling gets you is cracked rotors. Slotting usually fares about the same. Brake rotors need to accomplish two things. Have a high heat capacity to pull the heat away from the pads, and have a high ability to dissipate that heat.
Less surface areacontact between the pads and the rotor is never a good thing. It is my personal belief that manufacturers such as Porsche still cross drillfor appearance and weight savings and nothing more.
Now, if someone made the claimthat drilling and slotting helped performance after the pads got wet. I would buy that. But it is not reallya common thing to worry about.
The only good part about Zinc washed rotors are that the hubs and fins turn white as they corrode for a while as the sacrificial coating gets consumedbefore they getrusty.
What I believe does work are a couple things. I have had luck with in the pastcold treating rotors cryogenically. A BMW 5 series that a customer had back in the early 90's was warping rotors constantly.Aftermarketrotors (including drilled!!)proved to be farworse than factory versions.Finally, we bought a brand new set of factory rotors from BMW, and sent them out for cryo treatment. It went from warping rotors every 4 months or so to getting 2 years out of the frozen ones!!
Also, replacing composite (steel/cast) rotors with all cast wagnerunits works well in some applications to prevent warping.
Ifeveryonebelieved all the claims that aftermarket companies made, we all would believe we were driving cars that had the abilities of a Ferrari.
Personally, after building and restoringalot of cars both for myself and professionally at a family shop. I believe that most aftermarket parts aregarbage at best and usually create more problems than they solve.Usually, if 5% of the engineering timethat went into the original partgoes into the development of the aftermarket piece, you are lucky.
This is not to say that I don't have some aftermarket parts on my car. ButI am not so quick to open a catalog and replace everything on my carbecause some marketing guru that could not engineer his way out of a paper bagclaims it is better.