drive by wire
01-26-2007, 02:39 PM
#11
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
RE: drive by wire
+1 on the sucks part!
ORIGINAL: 2oo5stang
If you look under the SN95 hood, you'll see the throttle cable coming out of the firewall to the throttle body, look under the hood of a S197 and you won't seea throttle cable going to the throttle body. you can't do like the good old days and rev your car when your under the hood. The computer is the linkage now. and to me....is sucks.
If you look under the SN95 hood, you'll see the throttle cable coming out of the firewall to the throttle body, look under the hood of a S197 and you won't seea throttle cable going to the throttle body. you can't do like the good old days and rev your car when your under the hood. The computer is the linkage now. and to me....is sucks.
01-26-2007, 02:44 PM
#12
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
RE: drive by wire
Exactly how does drive by wire contribute to the horse power gains between 1970 and today? I think a lot of things have changed since 1970 that contribute to more horse power and better fuel economy, but I'm not sure drive by wire is one.
ORIGINAL: Professor Wizard
All of you are correct.
Drive by Wire is on all 05+ Mustangs.
Drive by Wire "Learns" your driving habits and will "DeTune" your car over time if you use it as a daily driver.
You can reset the throttle response alone by - - turning on the key but NOT starting the car... press down on the gas peddle at a medium speed untill it hits the floor - hold it on the floor for 1 second then at a medium speed bring the peddle back up. Turn off the car... This resets the stepper responder.
To reset the entire computer, you have to disconnect the battery for 15 seconds. You will NOT lose you tune doing this - it will only reset all the sensor learning overrides back to zero and so will run solely based on the information from your tune.
Personally, I like the drive by wire - - because of it we are able to get 300+ hoursepower without serious modifications to our engines. and were able to hook up tuners to our cars to make performance adjustments.
I'm and old guy - - and believe me when I tell you getting 300HP from a small block was a lot of work back in 1970 and you were lucky if you got 10mpg when you got done. DBW is the only way to go today!
All of you are correct.
Drive by Wire is on all 05+ Mustangs.
Drive by Wire "Learns" your driving habits and will "DeTune" your car over time if you use it as a daily driver.
You can reset the throttle response alone by - - turning on the key but NOT starting the car... press down on the gas peddle at a medium speed untill it hits the floor - hold it on the floor for 1 second then at a medium speed bring the peddle back up. Turn off the car... This resets the stepper responder.
To reset the entire computer, you have to disconnect the battery for 15 seconds. You will NOT lose you tune doing this - it will only reset all the sensor learning overrides back to zero and so will run solely based on the information from your tune.
Personally, I like the drive by wire - - because of it we are able to get 300+ hoursepower without serious modifications to our engines. and were able to hook up tuners to our cars to make performance adjustments.
I'm and old guy - - and believe me when I tell you getting 300HP from a small block was a lot of work back in 1970 and you were lucky if you got 10mpg when you got done. DBW is the only way to go today!
01-26-2007, 03:13 PM
#15
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 760
RE: drive by wire
It is supposed to have fuel mileage, drivetrain wear and comfort benefits - use your own judgement on that.
I am sceptical about the sweep test nonsense. There is no "stepper" effect. The system "babysits" the driver up to 40% pedal. After 40% it opens the throttle proportionate to pedal position. The adaptive thing appliesmore for shift strategy and spark advance. Not so much ETB control.........So I am told by my engineers. I have not had confirmation from my end of the field, but the general consenus is that EVERY characteristic of the throttle delay and output vs. input is programmed. According to everyone but Ford, it can be changed. Ford will not respond to my questions, so I assume I have touched a sensitive subject......
I am sceptical about the sweep test nonsense. There is no "stepper" effect. The system "babysits" the driver up to 40% pedal. After 40% it opens the throttle proportionate to pedal position. The adaptive thing appliesmore for shift strategy and spark advance. Not so much ETB control.........So I am told by my engineers. I have not had confirmation from my end of the field, but the general consenus is that EVERY characteristic of the throttle delay and output vs. input is programmed. According to everyone but Ford, it can be changed. Ford will not respond to my questions, so I assume I have touched a sensitive subject......
01-26-2007, 04:07 PM
#18
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 760
RE: drive by wire
I think that may have been me, actually[8D]
Yeah, my camera was all jacked up that day. I spent the whole day detailing the car. At dusk I drove it to the park to take pictures. Then the weather hits and I put it up like a week later. Turns out the only pics I took of the car (sellers pics were FILTHY! I gave him **** about the way he kept it - it was that bad) are fuzzy. I will take better ones come spring
Yeah, my camera was all jacked up that day. I spent the whole day detailing the car. At dusk I drove it to the park to take pictures. Then the weather hits and I put it up like a week later. Turns out the only pics I took of the car (sellers pics were FILTHY! I gave him **** about the way he kept it - it was that bad) are fuzzy. I will take better ones come spring
01-26-2007, 04:48 PM
#19
MF Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,441
RE: drive by wire
Well Moose...
To be quite honest – I don’t see how you could not see how Drive By Wire contributes to Horsepower unless your considering drive by wire nothing more then the throttle control – in which case you would be correct as electronic throttle only replaces the throttle cable.
I guess you have to look at exactly what "Drive by Wire" is.... to ME. Drive by Wire, is everything about the engine that the computer controls including the throttle. And each year, the computer controls more aspects of the engine.
In the 70’s everything was mechanical. A performance tuner spent DAYS tweaking things to get an engine to perform at its maximum. Also, being mechanical, environmental effects would change parameters and so you had to retune, say if the temperature changed or the humidity. Not to mention that your engine would simply change just due to wear and tear and vibration allowing adjustments to move.
Since your Drive By Wire computer is monitoring various aspects of the engine it makes adjustments on the fly to compensate for temperature changes, humidity, wear and tear, load. Etc.
Since the Drive By Wire computer contains the parameters for maximum horsepower, and has the ability to maintain those parameters in any given situation regardless of environment creating a HUGE benefit.
TRUE – there are many developments over the years that contribute to our ability to have high output small block engines, and no single one is a standout on its own, but DBW defiantly is a contributor.
Now – the LEARN feature, or Adaptive feature - - I personally don’t like that at all… But, considering most people will want the best mileage while getting great performance when needed, and also want the car to react to each individuals driving style. Adaptive Learning is a feature us performance buffs are just going to have to deal with. I wait patiently for the tuner companies to build the programming ability to disable the adaptive features of our engines.
Shaner… wow… at first I thought my glasses fogged up while reading your post and seeing your pic! HA HA.
I believe for the most part you are correct; Ford will not share with us the access addresses for all the parameters to the system. But, as you stated – it is a computer, and so therefore all sensors and controllers are addressable and therefore changeable.
How much or how little, Ford is controlling the engine, is a disputable quandary, as Ford surely is going to keep us in the dark.
EVERYONE wants to eliminate the pregnant pause caused by DWB, and your correct in saying that is a programmable parameter. With one exception in that, since a computer is involved, you do have to wait for the computer to react to your input make the adjustment calculations and then implement the adjustments… However that shouldn’t be more then a few milliseconds – NOT a full second!
To be quite honest – I don’t see how you could not see how Drive By Wire contributes to Horsepower unless your considering drive by wire nothing more then the throttle control – in which case you would be correct as electronic throttle only replaces the throttle cable.
I guess you have to look at exactly what "Drive by Wire" is.... to ME. Drive by Wire, is everything about the engine that the computer controls including the throttle. And each year, the computer controls more aspects of the engine.
In the 70’s everything was mechanical. A performance tuner spent DAYS tweaking things to get an engine to perform at its maximum. Also, being mechanical, environmental effects would change parameters and so you had to retune, say if the temperature changed or the humidity. Not to mention that your engine would simply change just due to wear and tear and vibration allowing adjustments to move.
Since your Drive By Wire computer is monitoring various aspects of the engine it makes adjustments on the fly to compensate for temperature changes, humidity, wear and tear, load. Etc.
Since the Drive By Wire computer contains the parameters for maximum horsepower, and has the ability to maintain those parameters in any given situation regardless of environment creating a HUGE benefit.
TRUE – there are many developments over the years that contribute to our ability to have high output small block engines, and no single one is a standout on its own, but DBW defiantly is a contributor.
Now – the LEARN feature, or Adaptive feature - - I personally don’t like that at all… But, considering most people will want the best mileage while getting great performance when needed, and also want the car to react to each individuals driving style. Adaptive Learning is a feature us performance buffs are just going to have to deal with. I wait patiently for the tuner companies to build the programming ability to disable the adaptive features of our engines.
Shaner… wow… at first I thought my glasses fogged up while reading your post and seeing your pic! HA HA.
I believe for the most part you are correct; Ford will not share with us the access addresses for all the parameters to the system. But, as you stated – it is a computer, and so therefore all sensors and controllers are addressable and therefore changeable.
How much or how little, Ford is controlling the engine, is a disputable quandary, as Ford surely is going to keep us in the dark.
EVERYONE wants to eliminate the pregnant pause caused by DWB, and your correct in saying that is a programmable parameter. With one exception in that, since a computer is involved, you do have to wait for the computer to react to your input make the adjustment calculations and then implement the adjustments… However that shouldn’t be more then a few milliseconds – NOT a full second!
01-26-2007, 04:52 PM
#20
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Citrus County, FL
Posts: 8,007
RE: drive by wire
stickshify...... best avatar ever!!!!!!
what is the difference between these two things?
You can reset the throttle response alone by - - turning on the key but NOT starting the car... press down on the gas peddle at a medium speed untill it hits the floor - hold it on the floor for 1 second then at a medium speed bring the peddle back up. Turn off the car... This resets the stepper responder.
To reset the entire computer, you have to disconnect the battery for 15 seconds. You will NOT lose you tune doing this - it will only reset all the sensor learning overrides back to zero and so will run solely based on the information from your tune.
To reset the entire computer, you have to disconnect the battery for 15 seconds. You will NOT lose you tune doing this - it will only reset all the sensor learning overrides back to zero and so will run solely based on the information from your tune.
