ORIGINAL: F1Fan




Vista,

I worked for major US based import motorsports equipment company that designs, builds and distributes German performance auto parts. I've helped develop both street and race suspension components for BMW, Porsche, VW and Audi vehicles. I also developed the in house engine management tuning program there. I've known the principals for 30 years now and we remain friends even though I've left the company. I don't have a dedicated drag car, I don't have a use for one, I'm into road racing mainly with production based chassis cars.

I have an opinion formed from my street and race chassis development experience. When a guy is looking for help I try to help if I can honestly contribute to his thread. I don't know where you are coming from but you aren't helping much.

I've known Roland since he came here from Germany almost 20 years ago. Good luck with your H&R Cup Kit, Roland would thank you for your money.

ORIGINAL: Martin123

Wow, some of this information, although informative, is too much for a junior "modster" like me to handle. There is an article in the August edition of MMFF (Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords) done on lowering the 05 Mustang with the eibach system, which perhaps will also assist us guys in our decision-making

After reading the article and for the price, I thought it was a pretty good deal but after reading this thread I will consider all the factors that were mentioned.

My next mod was to lower the car and go with 18 inch rims with a wider tire.

ORIGINAL: F1Fan


tboucher:
Basically, if you want a lower car with better handeling, but maintain nice ride quality, go with the pro kit or steeda springs.

ORIGINAL: VistaBlue 06 GT

I am trying to help him out by showing him that there are other systems out there besides the eibach pro-kit. I see that you have them on your car, so you can sertainly give him good advice on how they work.

He never stated exactly what he wanted in a suspension, so my post was to give him an idea of what else is out there. The pro-kit is great if a nice cushy ride is more important than handeling. For me I said it will be either the cup kit or the tokico d-specs withe the ebach sportline springs.

This is because I don't mind a stiffer ride in exchange for better handeling. This was to give an idea of the differences in performance of the systems. There are all types of people out there and I don't assume that everyone else is going to like a stiff riding car. I also know most people don't want to get the camber kit that is required with a 2" or more drop (sportlines claim an even 2" drop in back) in the rear.

Actually, for an inexperienced driver, tboucher I don't know what your racing background is s oplease don't take offense, a suspension setup like mine on the street could be dangerous. The parts I will be using will promote oversteer, which is good on the track but can get you into trouble on the streets.

tboucher:
Basically, if you want a lower car with better handeling, but maintain nice ride quality, go with the pro kit or steeda springs. If a harsh ride doesn't bother you and you are in need of more performance than either of those two can provide then go with sportlines, cup kit, H&R race springs, or another high performance spring. Just remember, with the higher performance stuff you will need a camber kit for the rear and performance shocks and struts.

The main issues I am trying to address with my own car are:
1) Body roll-----> Eibach Sway bar kit
2) Oversteer----> The sways will help, as will the lowering springs and high performance shocks/struts
3)Wheel hop over rough pavement-------> this is a big one. I am going for new panhard rods and hoping the new rear shocks help out too. A few other parts will help out here as well.

Hope this helps. There are a lot of different options, talk to some more people and see what they think. The most important things are how much comfort you are willing to sacrafice for performance and what your own driving skills are.

f1 fan
Didn't mean any harm by what I said earlier, but I have used cup kits on other cars for auto-x and they worked quite well while still being liveable on the streets. Everybody has thier own opinions on things, that is what makes it so much fun. As far as a coilover setup, I was told that the H&R would come with plates to help relieve stress from the chassis of the car. If not I wouldn't even consider them, I am well aware of the type of damage that could do.

ORIGINAL: F1Fan


[f1 fan
There are certainly other good springs out there for the '05's for street use but as I said most of them are lowering the car too much without warning the buyers of the downside to lowering a car this much with the type of suspension the new '05's utilize at the front and rear of the car. I have the Eibach ProKit springs installed as I mentioned and yes they are much stiffer than the stock springs, in fact too stiff for the stock GT struts and dampers out back as I posted previously.

I've driven a new '05 Steeda suspended car, a factory '05 Saleen S281 and a factory '05 Roush GT and I liked the Steeda the best followed Saleen and then the Roush car. The Steeda is the best balanced of the three and not surprisingly it also has the least radical lowering and the smallest tires. The Roush GT's suspension was just not very well refined, almos crude, it just didn't feel like they were done developing it yet. IMO the Saleen was hampered by the 20" wheels and tires. If the Saleen S281 had light weight 18" wheels and decent tires it may very well have been the best handling and sticking of the three cars I test drove.

tboucher said in his first post what he is looking for, to tighten up his car's handling on the street for fun. The spring rates in a street car will have little or nothing to do with the cushiness of the ride. That is determined by the dampening rates of the struts and dampers used. The rates need to be matched to the springs to work well but an under dampened car with high rate springs rides just as well as a car with more moderate or even softer spring rates. The car will just be bouncey if you happen to hit the right combination of bumps to cause the spring to reach its natural frequency. At this point the car will be very uncomfortable because the insuffcient dampening rate struts and shocks will allow too much motion for too long to dampen the excess motion and potentially allow the driver to lose control of the car.

As to your choice of SportLines you really should call Eibach up and talk to them about your application, especially for a drift car. You may find that the sportlines are not a good setup for your use without major suspenstion rework to correct the geomtry problems you are introducing especially to the front of the car. You can fix the geometry issues with off the shelf parts and regain that great stock handling. Here is how: the rear end issues are easy to fix, new lower controll arms with urethane bushings, (lighter is better here but don't give up durability for weight), many people make these, Ford has a very good part number straight out of the FR500C race car, stiffer arms with stiffer bushings improving control of the axle. You will also need a kit offered by BMR or Steeda to correct the lower control arm geometry and they both work well. Leave the upper link alone unless you are a drag racer where pinion angle will be a factor. You will also NEED an adjustable panhard bar (critical! it allows you to re-center the rear axle after lowering the car and allows you to set the chassis up to steer the same for both left and right turns), and panhard bar brace trust me the stock piece is a thin steel stamping and is not up to the task. Up front Ford Racing has a specially redesigned lower A-arm (right out of the race car, they were developed for the Ford FR500C race car and also have stiffer bushings), to correct the geometry that got screwed up by lowering the car in the first place. These FRP parts are the hot ticket up front as they are basically drop in replacement parts and are Ford OE quality engineered to solve the geometry problems correctly. Steeda also has a kit that I got to try out after watching it get installed in another Eibach lowered car, this kit works great BTW but it does require heavy fabrication (cutting and welding the chassis), skills to install so offers no savings really in cost over the Ford arms and you need to hack up your chassis. BTW the camber kit goes in front, NOT the rear. The camber kit you mention is NOT needed for any of these street suspension kits. All you need is a good alignment shop that has cam type offset bolts for the upper strut to hub mounting point, they should only cost about $25 or so.

As to the parts you mention inducing oversteer, it isn't going to happen unless at the very least you use the stock anti-roll bar or disconnect the front anti-roll bar all together in conjuction with using a larger rear bar from one of the handling kits like Eibach or Steeda. You could also install a higher rate rear spring and lower rate front spring to get this wacky balance.

As to the goals you have for your own car it's my opinion that anti-roll bars are a band-aid for poor geometry. Lowering the car 2 inches and not correcting the geometry increases roll because you raised the front roll center. Fix the geometry issues and the car will roll much less without resorting to larger bars or higher spring rates. Increasing the car's balance to load up the rear tires to reduce rear traction more than the front will require more rear spring rate and possibly more rear bar stiffness. You can probably just disconnect the front anti-roll bar to start and go from there. As to rear wheel hop, shocks won't change this issue. This is caused by poor fore-aft location of the axle under load and twisting of the lower control arms which then release this energy and cause hop. Using the stiffer lower control arms with their stiffer bushings or solid hemi-joints will resolve any wheel hop issues you may have. BTW, there is only ONE panhard bar on the car and if you get a good one that is adjustable you will have the option to use hemi-joints or hard bushings.

I saw your additional post and my comments reflect my thinking on your goals for the car as a drift car. Just remember to hook back up the front anti-roll bar for the drive home.

HTH